Mitsubishi WS65613 Light blinking

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chrisandnat
texascavers said: Wow, I can

texascavers said: Wow, I can't believe how widespread this problem is! We too discovered the "Terrible Blinking Green Light of Death" on our WS-65813 when we got home from work. Is it possible to get the repair procedure and service manual from you, as well, Larry? Thanks in advance and I'm glad I found this site! Mark in Mesquite

Hey - I fixed a guys TV in Rockwall, he found me from this doc I wrote.

http://www.chrisandnat.com/temp/BlinkingTV.pdf

grabbyzz
Has anyone shown Mitsubishi

Has anyone shown Mitsubishi these threads about this issue? It's such an inexpensive fix ($4)! I'm surprised how non-difficult it is to work on the DM board.

By the way, for anyone that didn't find any info about how to actually clean the "lenses", I did some digging online. By lenses, they mean the CRT gun lenses, not the screen assembly. I came across a professional whom cleaned these CRT lenses with pre-moistened Lense Cleaner cloths and while it was still wet on the lense surface, then used a soft lense cloth to dry it without leaving streaks. I had some Zeiss Lense Cloths (pre-moistened packets) from Wal-Mart, and tried this. It was very easy and I ran across the lenses twice (moistened cloth, dry cloth, moistened cloth, dry cloth). I wish I hadn't used air to blow the dust off first though, as the particles were still floating about in the TV's box where the mirrors were. The dust just settled back onto the CRT lenses again! I had to let it settle before cleaning that one last time.

Some dust on the lenses shouldn't make that much of a difference. With experience in photography, I can agree that dust on the sensor in the camera body can show up in the pics, but you can have quite a bit of dust on the camera lense itself with no signs of such in the pics (because it's not within focus). Now, if you have a TON of dust, in layers which cause light to be dimmed, then it can have an effect. You should clean them anyway though since most ppl won't be opening their TV's that often. Since CRT guns do attract dust, it needs to be done. Just don't use compressed air or some of the dust you spent time knocking off the lense is simply hanging around the mirrors and front screen, and will just find itself back on the CRT lense again. If you smoke inside your house, expect lots of dust on the lenses! I'm not a smoker, but I've seen such lenses (your lungs are probably worse?).

After you replace the capacitors, it's a good idea to put the TV back into its final resting position, and run an Advanced Convergence on it. Mine had shifted after working on it. My TV seems to be very shifty after a couple moves. The top doesn't seem very well planted on the base.

I used a 120mm fan on my DM box. I used jewelry wire to affix it to the shield. My fan is a Silverstone PC fan, and has an extra potentiometer for variable fan speed which I ran to the back-panel and drilled a hole for the knob. I found a really cool way to trigger the fan! My Rotel preamp has two 12v triggers, one for the power amps in my system, and the other wasn't being used. It measured 11.77v and was sufficient to drive the fan. In the Rotel menu, I enabled its output when Video 1 through 3 are used (Cable, DVD, Xbox 360). This way, I don't need to worry about pulling an extra wall wart for the fan. If you have a higher end audio setup, don't forget to use the 12v trigger for this! You'll use an 1/8" phono jack with the tip being fan (+) and the sleeve being fan (-).

About the fan mod:  Even with the fan on low, it will make some turbulent noises due to there being such restriction on the DM box. At one point, I thought about cutting a hole in it to allow better airflow through the fan, but I figured there was probably a reason there was the grounded shield all around it. Or can it really be considered a "shield" if there are perforations? Perhaps someone could chime in about this because I'd rather create an in-out airflow with less restriction. It would be much more efficient and make very little noise.  One reason for the fan making more noise than normal is also that it doesn't quite sit on a level surface.  Bending a plastic fan's chassis can cause offset balance and even bearing noises.  They're sensitive.  It may be best to simply use doublestick tape all around and just stick that on there.  It would be best if somehow the heat from the caps could be directly (through thermo-paste) mated to the box (or does the top foil parts of caps carry polarity or is that ground/neutral)?

Thanks!

grabbyzz
BTW my surface mount

BTW my surface mount capacitor "fuses" weren't bad.. forgot to mention that. All my problem involved was just those four caps. My caps were about an eighth to a quarter inch taller than the factory ones and they still allowed the box to fit over the DM board.

If anyone is in the Austin, TX area with this problem, please message me (you will need to register).  I will come and fix your TV if you don't feel comfortable with unscrewing/soldering.  

zapdbf
Jon Law said : "It would be

Jon Law said : "It would be best if somehow the heat from the caps could be directly (through thermo-paste) mated to the box "  

Capacitors don't generate heat, if they do they are bad, they don't use electricity they filter out ripples (at least in the use in that circuit) any heat you feel can be reflected heat from other components. Also the metal tops are connected to the negative side of the capacitor, but in reference to ground they may be at a potential higher than ground, (depending on it's use) and the metal top (if used in this way) will actually cause a problem if it touches the ground cage. 

jon Law said : "I thought about cutting a hole in it to allow better airflow through the fan, but I figured there was probably a reason there was the grounded shield all around it. Or can it really be considered a "shield" if there are perforations? "

I would not recommend this because it IS a shield, even with the holes in it. The engineers determined the size of the holes needed to accomplish effective shielding and cooling. if you change this you may have interference with the operation of the circuit. There are actual equations you can work to determine how well a shield will work in protecting from different electro-magnetic wave lengths. I am sure some engineer did this.  

grabbyzz
Thanks zapdbf!  You answered

Thanks zapdbf!  You answered all my questions :)

zapdbf
The fan you used, if it is

The fan you used, if it is not electrically and magnetically shielded, can throw off emf or reverse emf, that could intermittently cause trouble with the operation of any sensitive circuit. I cannot say if it will cause you trouble, because i don't know what kind of fan you used or how it is mounded. But this is a possibility that needs to be taken into consideration.

grabbyzz
I thought about that...

I thought about that... should anyone actually even use a fan on a shielded box?  I would think most fans would induce some amount of interference.  The fan I used is this one:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16811999344

I'm checking into the specs of it more closely to see if they call it "shielded". 

zapdbf
there are fans created to

there are fans created to reduce the effects of emf defiantly! But it is just not the fan that needs to be addressed, it is the power circuit that feeds the fan, when the fan spins some of the electricity that has turned into magnetism - when the fan passes that point the magnetic field around that small coil will collapse and return to electricity in the coil this is called reverse emf, it flows in the opposite direction then the current supplied to the fan. The net result of this is small voltage spikes on the power line, in many cases diodes or dual diodes are used to help dampen this effect. because the spikes can be transmitted back to other components through the power supply.

grabbyzz
I haven't seen artifacts yet

I haven't seen artifacts yet of magnetic fields generated by the use of the fan, but I'll be watching it closely.  I'm curious if this really needs a fan.  What exactly is the fan doing in this case?  Simply making ambient temps lower around the DM board?  Does it help?  Who else has done the fan mod?

There's one thing that I've noticed is greatly eliminated by the replacement of these four capacitors... the wavy picture I used to get when I first turned on my TV for the last few months!  I used to have to turn the TV off and then back on to get rid of it.  Sometimes it was really bad.  The wavy image is probably a symptom of bad caps.

zapdbf
Jon Law said: "The wavy image

Jon Law said: "The wavy image is probably a symptom of bad caps." -

Yes that could be a symptom.

zapdbf
Jon Law Said: "I'm curious if

Jon Law Said: "I'm curious if this really needs a fan." If the factory did not authorize the modification it probably doesn't need it. I don't know anything about mits tv's really.

grabbyzz
Well the reason I mention the

Well the reason I mention the fan is because these factory caps were obviously a result of Mits trying to save a buck, right? Some cheap Chinese caps probably.. So I'm wondering if they wanted to save a couple bucks by not using a fan... Some people here seem to think it needs a fan. I'm curious as to why. The factory caps are 105C, as are the replacements I used. I wouldn't even think about using the 85C ones from Radio Shack. I'm thinking heat was an issue here. Like you point out, perhaps the heat from the rest of the board is rising and heating those caps. Is the 105C spec simply what the cap is CAPable (hehe) of withstanding? Or is it actually just what max temp it is guaranteed to work at 1000uf @ 16v?

It appears that capacitors are going on a downhill trend.  There's a website forum just for bad caps:  www.badcaps.net !!!

You gotta read this post: http://www.badcaps.net/forum/showthread.php?t=4222 Read what tvtech is saying there:

"Yep thats what it is,the rubber bung breaks down allowing the electrolyte to leak out ond the cap dries out and loses capacitance and eventually goes open.Nichicon,rubycon and elna capacitors from the early to mid 90's are usually shot today whether they have been installed in a set or are new and never installed.These caps were used in everything from laptops of the time to medical equipment.Mitsubishi and zenith used these caps extensivly Nichicon and matsushita(panasonic) also used the same crappy rubber in their SMD capacitors from the late 80's to late 90's.They used these mainly in older sony and other brands of 8mm camcorders and they are all leaking and have to be replaced which is time consuming and not always sucessful due to the electrolyte eating the traces on the board.At least these capacitors lasted 10-15 years unlike the crap china is making today.Today just replaced the main filters(470mfd 200v capXon's) in the SMPS in 2007 model DLP set,This is just the beginning,I have at least 20 more samsung monitor power supplies with bad caps to rebuld that are less than a year old."

I remember back in the day when caps were huge and beefy.  Audio components had a great sound.  Crap now is being cheaped out with lousy critical components!

blondie42550
Larry and new friends -

Larry and new friends -

I have a WS-55613 with this same blinking green LED light continuously flashing away.  It started the morning of Tuesday.  The television was working TIP TOP and I had just had ATT's U-verse put in over the weekend and was still blown away of the clarity of the HD channels.  I felt my 3 year old tv was still better than all that plasma stuff.

 The next morning my fiance went to turn it on and it just went into flashing LED mode and does not do anything else.  I have pretty much spent a few hours reading and I am certain it's these capacitors on the DM module and I am just aching to spend the weekend repairing it. 

Larry, would you please send me the great work you've completed on successfully repairing this DM module that everybody is talking about?  please send it to [email protected]

I can't tell you enough how helpful it would be.  BY chance do you have any Fry's Electronics or Radioshack part numbers to these capacitors that have proven to be effective in repairing this module handy?  I could just start calling these stores and making sure they have them.  I believe this model tv has 7 total that I should change, correct?

Thank you SO much in advance.  I'm excited about getting my Mitsu and repairing its issues.

Ryan

grabbyzz
I'm certain it is your issue

I'm certain it is your issue as well!  As long as you get 1000uf, same-or-greater voltage caps of the same type, then it will work fine.  If the caps have 85C printed on them, it would be a better idea to up the temperature handling to the 105C caps though.

blondie42550
Jon, thank you.  Is there a

Jon, thank you.  Is there a part number to these capacitors?  I have a radio shack located in my building.  I could start to at least order them if there are part numbers to these caps. 

Thank you very much.  I certainly could use the link or the pdf file that Larry has originated to guide me through this process.  Where would I be able to utilize this file?

grabbyzz
The files are .doc and a .pdf

The files are .doc and a .pdf.  Nothing special.  They're just large enough where it warrants him filesharing on his end with a software called Pando (which you have to download .. he'll give you the instructions for that). 

The part number to the cap that Radio Shack has three 1000uf's that would work, but I wouldn't do it:

http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?allCount=100&cp=2032058.203223...

They only have a max of 85C operating temperature and it would be best to order the 105C's from elsewhere, even locally.  I searched google for an electronics supply dealer in my city and there were quite a few I never even knew existed.  What's your zipcode?

Otherwise you could search Mouser.com 

grabbyzz
Mine were 16v, 1000uf caps,

Mine were 16v, 1000uf caps, 105C .. this was the exact same specs as the factory ones.  The only difference was color and size (mine were black and larger, the factory ones were blue and smaller).

blondie42550
Jon.  I appreciate your help.

Jon.  I appreciate your help.  My zip is 77070.  If you would sir, please email me off line at [email protected]   I would like to possibly speak with you directly so I could make this much faster.  I appreciate all the help I can get.  Thanks!

Brazinman
Larry,

Larry,

Have the blinking light issue on my 65813,  can you send me the information and the service repair manual? 

Thanks much....

[email protected]

grabbyzz
I suggest that everyone

I suggest that everyone follow the PDF that was posted here.  The direct link to it is on a previous page.  I almost used it exclusively for my WS-65813 and I had no problems. 

(Edit from Moderator Larry Dillon) YOU had no problems, but I have had tons of misguided folks who have. The gent has posted The DM fix is for a certain series,  on almost every thread here, and he does not include a service manual or any follow up if need be. It is incomplete my friend. there are two other DM boards that have problem. ARE you aware of these? If not. You recommendations are not necessary. Thanks anyway.

Lourdes
Hi Larry,

Hi Larry,

     Another one bites the dust with the blinking issue.  Like everyone I would greatly appreciate if you could send what I need to rectify my problem.  I have the Mit Diamond 65813.  Mahalo from Mani in Kempner Texas.

myredeem
Larry Dillon said: Papa

Larry Dillon said: Papa andVan, I have attached the documents you should need to attempt the repair of your TV set. I have also attached the original factory service manual so you can see ho the set comes apart. Good Luck with your repair.

Larry,  I think I have the same problem.  Can you please email me the documents?

Thanks

[email protected]

grabbyzz
Is there some way that a

Is there some way that a zipped file could be placed on a fileserver (free ones do exist) so that people can grab the documents? Larry, you've got to be working overtime here responding in the blog as well as thru email. Now, if you were a retired Mits engineer feeling guilty for bad capacitors, I'd understand, but you need to get some sort of compensation for all this.  I understand that bandwidth could be an issue with hosting the file here, but just thought I'd offer the suggestion.

I apologize if I misguided anyone to only follow Chris's PDF.  Apparently there was some confusion with it since it only covers a certain series. 

Larry Dillon
Not a problem my friend, I do

Not a problem my friend, I do appriciate the thought though.  I once posted something on a free fileserver, and had someone trying to claim the feat. Not that it really matters . I do not trust fileservers, they are worse to have free loading bugs and worms then the infamous, pando. I guess you have not been bitten yet by something from a fileserver.

marys
Larry, Mit WS-65613 Medallion

Larry, Mit WS-65613 Medallion HDTV 1080. Unbelievable to find so many people with the 'blinking power light of death'. You would think that Mitsubishi would have this design flaw fixed by now. Would appreciate your documentation and instructions once again. Looking things over but awaiting your instructions ... hoping the entire main ckt board does not have to come out to get to the DM board ... what a pain that will be. You're the man!! [email protected]

Lourdes
Larry,

Larry,

     Sorry I forgot to include my email address its:[email protected] again!  Mani

grabbyzz
I've personally been bitten

I've personally been bitten daily by free fileservers, as my copyrighted products are found being distributed, over and over, thousands of times.  It's sickening.  I hate them.. just trying to think of a way to make less work for ya.  Brainstormin'... ;)

Larry Dillon
Yeppers, it certainly is

Yeppers, it certainly is sickening. I appreciate the brainstorming.

grabbyzz
Hmm mmaybe I could set up a

Hmm mmaybe I could set up a website for this in your honor?  How much bandwidth would you say all this creates each month?  It would easily rank #1 in Google for searches on "mitsubishi blinking light" and related terms. 

Guest (not verified)
Please add me to that list

Please add me to that list with the dreaded blinking light. WS-65613. Would appreciate the manual and other info for repair. Thanks. Seems to be a great forum. [email protected]

Amazing so many people are having problems with bad capacitors. 

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