Roundabout said: The problem on the KLV-40U100M / KLV-32U100M is caused by a defective U24 IC. It is a very small 3 leg IC near the CPU. This part is not available from Sony. You can remove the chip from the board and the set will work, however it may come up in a random mode if you have a brownout situation. This is the reset IC for the Genesis CPU, which shorts out and causes random pulses to be sent to the chip and "flakes" it out. See my post on Agoraquest.com (search for KLV-32U100M on that site) if you want more information about how I found this failure. Hope this helps someone out.
Roundabout said: The problem on the KLV-40U100M / KLV-32U100M is caused by a defective U24 IC. It is a very small 3 leg IC near the CPU. This part is not available from Sony. You can remove the chip from the board and the set will work, however it may come up in a random mode if you have a brownout situation. This is the reset IC for the Genesis CPU, which shorts out and causes random pulses to be sent to the chip and "flakes" it out. See my post on Agoraquest.com (search for KLV-32U100M on that site) if you want more information about how I found this failure. Hope this helps someone out.
You said "defective U24 IC. It is a very small 3 leg IC near the CPU"
This is on the A-board.
What on the G-board is going out? So many have talked about pulling and replacing the G-board. A few have had to do both A & G? If you guys could be just a little clearer on this part of the problem.
This worked. No need to waste more money on sony. Just take this chip off, its tiny. U24 about 2 inches north east of Genesis CPU. I just fixed this 10 minutes ago and now I am watching IN the army now with pauly shore.
it worked. (U24) 2 inches north east of genesis CPU. thanks to the guys who took there time to troubleshoot for us. I'm greatful, and so is my Fiance. We had a newborn, and saving the money instead of buying a new tv is wonderful.
Glad I was able to help you out. I spent quite a few hours tracking this problem down because I'm very tenacious when it comes to repairing Sony produts. Since I worked for them for many years, I know how to troubleshoot almost anything as long as I have a schematic.
I posted this fix on Amazon, Agoraquest, Fixya, and here so that anyone looking for this problem will find my simple solution. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find this IC failed on many other models of Sony TV's. It is most likely underrated for the voltage/current in it's present applicaion. I have found a substitute for this chip but I haven't had time to install it in my set yet to see if it works in this application.
So is this the problem (IC) that makes the TV cut off and then back on and then finally doesn't power back on???? I want to fix mine, but don't have a clue what is wrong and how to fix it. Could you post pictures on how to fix this.
Yes, this is what causes the TV to turn off and on by itself. The reason for this is due to the IC shorting out. On my set, this chip actually had a crack down the middle of it. Of course, you wouldn't notice it unless you had a magnifying glass and you are looking directly at the chip. It's very small and the crack was probably only a millimeter or two long, not easy to see. However, the chip doesn't have to have a crack in it to be defective.
Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures right now because I am in the middle of moving to a new home and I don't have time to take any. My TV is stored away and I don't have access to it to take photos (nor do I have the time right now). You can take a look at my lengthy post on agoraquest.com if you want more information about troubleshooting this problem. Search for KLV-32U100M on that website and you can read more about it.
The chip is quite easy to just pry off the board if you don't have a soldering iron, but you need to exercise care not to lift traces off the board in the process. I just used a small screwdriver and gently pried it up off the board.
The reason the set turns on and off is because this IC supplies the reset pulse to the Genesis CPU, and when it shorts out, it keeps resetting the CPU over and over. It's the same effect as turning the TV on and off with the power switch. Eventually when the U24 shorts out, the reset line stays low and "locks" the CPU in a constant state of reset where it can't proceed with normal operation. I hope this makes sense to you, I've made the explanation as simple as possible so everyone can understand what's happening with the failure.
Try removing the IC and see what happens. Nothing to lose if the set's dead anyway! I have a replacement IC that I will eventually try when I have more time and I'm not in the middle of moving to a new home. If I determine that it works, I'll be updating my post with the chip part number and where to get one. I have a production sample I got free from a chip manufacturer already, I just need the time to test it. Meanwhile, remove the IC and try it on your set. Let me know if it works.
Thanks for the reply so fast. I will go to that site and read more about it. Could someone maybe point me in the direction of where this chip is in the TV and how do I get to it. That TV has been sitting in a corner for 5 months and I want to fix it. I was about to toss it until I came across this post. I wasn't going to buy a new board from sony. Thanks Roundabout for this info...
(plug in the Soldering iron and let it warm for a few minutes. Then touch all 3 spots of the(ic)U24 with the Soldering iron and use tweasers to grab it off the A-Board) Yep thats it.. Push the power on the TV, it should come on now.
A Soldering Iron - to heat the chip to remove (IC) - Cost about $7.95 for a soldering iron at RadioShack. (should have small tip)
Philips Screw Driver - remove screws.
Tweezers - to pull (IC) off board
Good eyes - to see the U24
How to do it!!
Lay a towel down on the table.
Then lay the flat screen on the towel. (This way to don’t scratch the table or damage the screen)
Start by removing the stand from the bottom.
Remove the back off - (this was the fun part as the clips hold it on, so you have to pull hard to remove it)
INSIDE THE TV:
Remove the metal cover. (The metal cover slides off once all the screws around the sides and the video bolts (ZZ and screw BB) have been removed as shown in the photo. It should slide one way.
The A-Board shoud be marked on the side.
Look for the U24 its really small - (above)
In this photo u can really see how small the U24 really is.
Heat the 3 points of solder to remove the IC.
Once you get it the U24(IC) off you can tested the TV real fast by plugging it in and seeing that the green light turns on.
(DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING ON THE BACK - KEEP YOUR HANDS AWAY FROM THE POWER SUPPLY)
Now if that works then just put it back together.
I hope this helps you.
Don’t forget guys do not touch ANYTHING other then the U24.
I would put your TV on a good power supply or braker.
Good job with the photos, TV4U2. I'm glad I was able to help everyone with resurrecting their dead sets without having to pay Sony exhorbitant amounts of money for a new board, or paying someone on Ebay for a board that they probably didn't even fix.
I've been helped by many other anonymous people on the internet in the past with fixing different problems, and I am happy to give back to someone else, even people I will most likely never meet. Yes, it was a lot of troubleshooting to find this problem, several hours of tracing it out. In this case I was lucky to discover that the part isn't absolutely necessary for the TV to function. Believe me, this is a very rare occurence.
It will be interesting to see if there are many other Sony TV's with the same part failing. When I worked there, we had a lot of product that had capacitors that failed - mostly Camcorders. Many times people were charged for repairs that they shouldn't have paid for. It was a design flaw. This failure is also a design flaw, the part is underrated for use in this circuit. Will Sony own up to it? Not going to happen. This is the best way I can fight back, by telling people how to repair it themelves.
Here is a link to my original post on Agoraquest if anyone cares to read it. My post is toward the bottom of the thread discussing this failure.
Thanks guys, I got the back off and having problem getting the metal cover off. Getting hung by the plugs at the bottom. I can pull it up and see and reach the u24 but I don't have a solder. I am going to get it done and I hope it works.. Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to roundabout who solve the problem and TV4u2 for the GREAT pictures.. I will update.. Don't Laugh!!!Can I heat up a small screwdriver and melt it off(u24)??? Thanks again!!
If you damage the board, or other chips its not going to work. A iron gets hot but not to hot. Hay its $8 bucks... your saving yourself a lot more then that.
Also the screws at the bottom of the Video plug come out and the jacks just to the left has a screw in it.. remove all 3 and the metal cover slides off.
I got the metal back off, I don't want to mess it up. I was thinking of sticking a lighter to a small screwdriver to heat it up, but like you said it's only $7..
Could you not pull it off with twezzers?
I used a very small flat-blade screwdriver (because I've done this before, and I know how to do it without damaging the board). I press it against the side of the chip, the side without any legs, and gently pry upwards. The pins on this IC are very small and will lift out of the solder without too much effort. Tweezers probably wouldn't be strong enough to pull it up, which is why I use a prying motion, sort of twist the screwdriver while wedged tightly against the side of the IC and the board until it begins to lift off the board. I really didn't have to pry very hard, and it didn't damage the traces at all. You just have to use caution but it's really not very difficult.
If you don't want to try it, then go buy a soldering iron, but it's really not necessary. Since I have a lot of experience with circuit boards, I wasn't too worried about it. Not that this is the ideal way to do it, of course. It's sort of "meatball surgery" but it gets the job done. Try it, and if you don't seem to be able to lift the chip off the board, you can get the iron. The other thing you could do it get a very small pair of diagonal cutters and just clip the leads where they come out of the IC until they no longer make contact with the body of the chip, and just leave the chip on the board. That would work just as well. Even if you only clip two connections, it will work because one lead left connected will not affect the circuit (at least two pins would have to be connected for the short to keep the reset line low). Give it a try, report back. Good luck.
Cbp said: I got the metal back off, I don't want to mess it up. I was thinking of sticking a lighter to a small screwdriver to heat it up, but like you said it's only $7.. Could you not pull it off with twezzers?
You can do it without the iron.. But if thats not the problem ??? where you getting the new IC to replace it... I wanted to pull it off and if that wasnt the problem put it back on and move to the next step..
Clip, Pull or cutting will most likely damage the IC but will do the trick I guess..
You're welcome. I'm glad you were able to get your set up and running again. I hope others out there find this information and don't pay Sony or those ripoff people on eBay for a board that they don't need. Of course, I could have done the same thing as they do, offer a "repair service" for the boards and made some coin off of it, but I just can't take advantage of people that way. I think the good karma from helping others out more than makes up for it. As I mentioned in a previous post, others have helped me in the past with other things.Someone saved me a ton on repairing a washing machine that only needed some WD-40 to fix it - but I didn't know that until someone told me where to oil it! Hopefully others will share their knowledge in the future when they can help someone out too. My e-mail address is mill3ww (at) hotmail (dot) com if anyone needs some more assistance.
Have a great day and enjoy your set! And Sony should be ashamed, but I promise you, they aren't :)
Thank you TV4U2 and roundabout. Followed your instructions and it is working great. I am so happy to stick it to SONY for once. Amazing that a .15 cent part can cause it to shut down. Even more amazing that Sony won't just have this part changed to save the $ 500 for the consumer. Just shows you what there only motivation is. Never again will I buy anything from Sony!
One note if you are doing this repair: please pay attention to the location of the dark colored screws that go in the bottom (where it holds the stand) as some are narrow thread and some are wide thread and have a specific place when puting it back together. It is difficult to figure out once removed.
tmefs said: Thank you TV4U2 and roundabout. Followed your instructions and it is working great. I am so happy to stick it to SONY for once. Amazing that a .15 cent part can cause it to shut down. Even more amazing that Sony won't just have this part changed to save the $ 500 for the consumer. Just shows you what there only motivation is. Never again will I buy anything from Sony! One note if you are doing this repair: please pay attention to the location of the dark colored screws that go in the bottom (where it holds the stand) as some are narrow thread and some are wide thread and have a specific place when puting it back together. It is difficult to figure out once removed.
Oops I over looked them screws.. Ty for pointing that out.
I bought the solder Iron and removed u24 and it is working fine.... Thanks SO MUCH for figuring that out.. How did you figure it out anyway??? I am very greatful to have my TV working again... Is there anywhere to get a new chip? I did a search online and can't find anything on this chip..
Cbp said: I bought the solder Iron and removed u24 and it is working fine.... Thanks SO MUCH for figuring that out.. How did you figure it out anyway??? I am very greatful to have my TV working again... Is there anywhere to get a new chip? I did a search online and can't find anything on this chip..
I have also looked for this chip but keep find that its sold in qtys of 5000 or more and I just cant see get that many.. The IC was put in place and I also would like to put it back but when I removed my IC some of the board came with it. So that IC have no home now.. LOL.
>>>Cbp said: I bought the solder Iron and removed u24 and it is working fine.... Thanks SO MUCH for figuring that out.. How did you figure it out anyway??? I am very greatful to have my TV working again... Is there anywhere to get a new chip? I did a search online and can't find anything on this chip..<<<
I figured it out by using a schematic and doing some 'ol fashioned troubleshooting skills I've learned for years...besides the fact I am a technician. I am sure no one at Sony has done any real troubleshooting for a long time, they're just board changers. I know before I left there that's what they were doing on all the PC's that came in for repair - no real troubleshooting, just change the board (and charge the customer if it's out of warranty).
There are some requsites for CPU operation, one of which is a reset pulse which has a specific slew rate (depending on the processor design) that must be applied for the registers to come on in the proper order. This prevents random actions of the CPU. Since we've removed the reset pulse, the CPU is depending on Vcc rising at a certain speed, to come on in the proper order.
So far, that seems to be happening without the reset line being active, and I've turned my TV on and off many times and it still functions correctly every time. I think you might see a problem if you have a low AC line voltage condition or brownout. Unless that happens it will most likely continue to work OK. If this happens, just unplug the TV and plug it back in. It won't harm it to come on incorrectly or not at all, just do your own reset :)
Many, many people have reported to me that this fix works every time, for the dead/intermittently dead problem. Not one person has said it hasn't fixed their problem (yet). If I knew all the models this IC is used in, I'd post it as a fix for all the Sony TV's with this problem. As it is, maybe some others will see this and try it on their other model TV.
Roundabout, again, thank you for figuring this out. Two side notes for the KLV40U100M that I have fixed. One is the removal appeared improbable when I tried it without the solder wand heating up the three spots. As soon as heated up, the tweezers removed it very easily. My only concern is a piece of wire pulled up about a half inch. Doesn't seem to have caused a problem but wondered if anyone else had this issue?
Second, I hesitantly left the TV plugged to the power strip last night during a tremendous thunder storm. The electricity went out at least 8 times and thankfully, the TV came on each time without a problem.
So far so good after a week of heavy use!
Finally, have a question for posters here, does anyone know who started and pays for the maintenance of this site? I would like to contribute to them for helping us all out.
I guess it reqires a certain "knack" of prying components off boards without damaging the board, I suppose I've done it so many times I don't worry about damaging the board...years of practice :) :)
For most people it probably would be better to use a soldering iron (and solder wick, if you have some) to remove the part. If you lifted the trace off the board, it means it got a bit too hot before you were able to lift the chip. They use heat resistant glue to lock the chip to the board during solder/assembly so it takes some amount of heat to get the glue to release. Unfortunately, it is hard to lift the chip up before the trace begins to lift off the board. Might work better if you use a small jeweler's screwdriver to gently pry the chip up while heating the side of the chip that has only one leg first.
In any case, if you did lift the trace up off the board, as long as you didn't actually break or tear the foil you can just press it back down to the PCB and don't worry about it. If we're ever able to get this chip to replace it, you can solder the new one in place and as long as it makes contact with the PCB foil it will work. In the past, when I have broken foil traces, I've just patched them with a very thin piece of wire. Scrape/clean the existing (remaining) foil down to the copper and solder the wire to it first, then jumper across the broken area to the lead of the chip or component. Not pretty, but it works. I've had to do that quite often when a component literally burns the foil right off the board. It happens more often than you might suspect.
BTW: if anyone needs the schematic, I have it available now. E-mail me at my address I mentioned in a previous post and I'll give you the link to download it.
Oops, sorry I didn't see that you had already posted a link for the manual, I'm sure that will help someone that has problems with their set other than the U24 problem. Good job.
I have done some research on a replacement for the U24 (ASM810JEURF made by Alliance Semiconductor) and have found what I believe is a suitable substitute. It turns out that the information in the Sony schematic is incorrect for the U24, this device is supposed to be "active-high" output but the schematic shows the output as "active-low" (denoted by the line over the letters "RST" on pin 2 of the chip). Since this output is tied to the base of an NPN transistor (which reqires at least 600mv positive bias at the base to turn on), it is obvious that in order for the /reset at AD9 of the Genesis CPU to be active-low, and for the inversion to happen, U24 HAS to be active-high. Someone screwed up at Sony when they drew the schematic.
Anyway...
I have found an IC that is identical physically (SOT-23 package) and has very similar specs electrically (not exactly identical, but should work). It is made by http://www.maxim-ic.com
You can go to their website and get FREE parts, believe it or not! On their homepage, under the category Buy/Sample, click on the link for Free Samples. You may have to register on their website (free) in order to get the samples. On the "search for products to order as samples" enter in the box by "search sample part" the part number: MAX810LEUR+ (exactly as I put here). On the following page click on the button marked "Sample Now" next to this part number.
It asks you on the following page for the quantity desired, I ordered 10 of these. They sent them with no questions asked, totally free. When ordering, you can use "Sony Electronics, Inc." as the company name if you wish. You can use your home address as a shipping address, they don't verify it. No credit card was necessary. I think it took about three or four days for the part to arrive. I haven't been able to test the part yet, I still don't have my soldering iron :(
If anyone gets around to installing this part, post back here and let me know how it goes. The worst that could happen is it doesn't work. It won't damage the set, if it does short out for some reason, you can just remove it again and be back to where you were :)
Nothing to lose for free...might work fine. Good luck everyone. Hope to hear back from some Jr. Technicians soon :)
Roundabout said: TV4U2, Oops, sorry I didn't see that you had already posted a link for the manual, I'm sure that will help someone that has problems with their set other than the U24 problem. Good job. I have done some research on a replacement for the U24 (ASM810JEURF made by Alliance Semiconductor) and have found what I believe is a suitable substitute. It turns out that the information in the Sony schematic is incorrect for the U24, this device is supposed to be "active-high" output but the schematic shows the output as "active-low" (denoted by the line over the letters "RST" on pin 2 of the chip). Since this output is tied to the base of an NPN transistor (which reqires at least 600mv positive bias at the base to turn on), it is obvious that in order for the /reset at AD9 of the Genesis CPU to be active-low, and for the inversion to happen, U24 HAS to be active-high. Someone screwed up at Sony when they drew the schematic. Anyway... I have found an IC that is identical physically (SOT-23 package) and has very similar specs electrically (not exactly identical, but should work). It is made by http://www.maxim-ic.com You can go to their website and get FREE parts, believe it or not! On their homepage, under the category Buy/Sample, click on the link for Free Samples. You may have to register on their website (free) in order to get the samples. On the "search for products to order as samples" enter in the box by "search sample part" the part number: MAX810LEUR+ (exactly as I put here). On the following page click on the button marked "Sample Now" next to this part number. It asks you on the following page for the quantity desired, I ordered 10 of these. They sent them with no questions asked, totally free. When ordering, you can use "Sony Electronics, Inc." as the company name if you wish. You can use your home address as a shipping address, they don't verify it. No credit card was necessary. I think it took about three or four days for the part to arrive. I haven't been able to test the part yet, I still don't have my soldering iron :( If anyone gets around to installing this part, post back here and let me know how it goes. The worst that could happen is it doesn't work. It won't damage the set, if it does short out for some reason, you can just remove it again and be back to where you were :) Nothing to lose for free...might work fine. Good luck everyone. Hope to hear back from some Jr. Technicians soon :)
Wow!! .. Tech talk... Like NASA ... LMAO
Ive been looking for the IC/chip info (number) and had noted it on some paper and cant find it. But I see you put it down again. I only found it in qtys of 5000 :(
I will try it and see where it all gose... So if Im getting this..
The IC U24 just turns the TV off when there is a power loss or peek and with it out the set really could be damaged from brown outs or voltage peeks?
This IC is a so-called "supervisor" chip, meaning it monitors the Vcc and if it drops below a certain voltage (depending on chip parameters) it will issue a reset pulse (bandwidth/time) for 140ms if Vcc (supply voltage) drops below ~5v.
In simple terms, when the set is first turned on, and as Vcc rises, the reset input to the Genesis CPU (/reset) stays low until the supply reaches ~5v DC, at which point the U24 turns "off" and allows the /reset input to rise. At this point all the registers of the CPU are in the proper state.
The reset could also be initiated if a low voltage condition occurs, such as during a brownout, low A/C line condition. In reality, if this occured, the power supply would shut down anyway as it cannot operate properly below a certain voltage threshold. As the A/C rises, the U24 would keep the reset line low until the power supply is operating normally again.
The function of U24 is not to protect the set from brownouts or voltage surges, it only resets the CPU. Without it, the worst that will happen is the set just won't start due to the CPU being "confused" so to speak, with incorrect input conditions. It won't harm the set per se to run it without the chip, but as I've mentioned before, it's possible that it could "flake out" sometime when first turned on or under low voltage conditions.
From what I can tell, the major difference between the MAX810"L" chip and the "J" chip is the reset voltage. The J chip initates reset at ~4.0v DC and the L chip does this at ~4.63v DC. So there is less margin for error, as this is close to Vcc of approx. 5v DC. That's why I'm not certain this chip will work, it may reset the TV on smaller voltage spikes/drops. Again, it won't hurt the TV, but it may prevent it from working. In that case, you'd need to remove the chip again to restore the set to operation.
This was the closest replacement for the U24 that I've been able to find so far, and the only one you can get for free that the specs are at least close to matching. Maxim-IC has many other similar chips but they don't supply samples and have the same problem as Alliance Semiconductor - you have to order large quantites.
I hope that answers most of your questions. If not, feel free to write back with any more questions and I'll try to answer. Meanwhile, go ahead and order the IC's if you want. Hope Maxim-IC doesn't get suspicious when dozens of people working at "Sony" :) start ordering samples of this chip.
Roundabout said: Meanwhile, go ahead and order the IC's if you want. Hope Maxim-IC doesn't get suspicious when dozens of people working at "Sony" :) start ordering samples of this chip.
TY much for all your Tech help. Its clear now..
Also others should use some other name so everyone is not saying there with Sony. just a thought guys.. Just waiting for my free stuff now..
You said "defective U24 IC. It is a very small 3 leg IC near the CPU"
This is on the A-board.
What on the G-board is going out? So many have talked about pulling and replacing the G-board. A few have had to do both A & G? If you guys could be just a little clearer on this part of the problem.
ty
This worked. No need to waste more money on sony. Just take this chip off, its tiny. U24 about 2 inches north east of Genesis CPU. I just fixed this 10 minutes ago and now I am watching IN the army now with pauly shore.
it worked. (U24) 2 inches north east of genesis CPU. thanks to the guys who took there time to troubleshoot for us. I'm greatful, and so is my Fiance. We had a newborn, and saving the money instead of buying a new tv is wonderful.
annoyedbymost,
Glad I was able to help you out. I spent quite a few hours tracking this problem down because I'm very tenacious when it comes to repairing Sony produts. Since I worked for them for many years, I know how to troubleshoot almost anything as long as I have a schematic.
I posted this fix on Amazon, Agoraquest, Fixya, and here so that anyone looking for this problem will find my simple solution. I wouldn't be at all surprised to find this IC failed on many other models of Sony TV's. It is most likely underrated for the voltage/current in it's present applicaion. I have found a substitute for this chip but I haven't had time to install it in my set yet to see if it works in this application.
In the meantime, enjoy your newly repaired TV!
So is this the problem (IC) that makes the TV cut off and then back on and then finally doesn't power back on???? I want to fix mine, but don't have a clue what is wrong and how to fix it. Could you post pictures on how to fix this.
Yes, this is what causes the TV to turn off and on by itself. The reason for this is due to the IC shorting out. On my set, this chip actually had a crack down the middle of it. Of course, you wouldn't notice it unless you had a magnifying glass and you are looking directly at the chip. It's very small and the crack was probably only a millimeter or two long, not easy to see. However, the chip doesn't have to have a crack in it to be defective.
Unfortunately, I don't have any pictures right now because I am in the middle of moving to a new home and I don't have time to take any. My TV is stored away and I don't have access to it to take photos (nor do I have the time right now). You can take a look at my lengthy post on agoraquest.com if you want more information about troubleshooting this problem. Search for KLV-32U100M on that website and you can read more about it.
The chip is quite easy to just pry off the board if you don't have a soldering iron, but you need to exercise care not to lift traces off the board in the process. I just used a small screwdriver and gently pried it up off the board.
The reason the set turns on and off is because this IC supplies the reset pulse to the Genesis CPU, and when it shorts out, it keeps resetting the CPU over and over. It's the same effect as turning the TV on and off with the power switch. Eventually when the U24 shorts out, the reset line stays low and "locks" the CPU in a constant state of reset where it can't proceed with normal operation. I hope this makes sense to you, I've made the explanation as simple as possible so everyone can understand what's happening with the failure.
Try removing the IC and see what happens. Nothing to lose if the set's dead anyway! I have a replacement IC that I will eventually try when I have more time and I'm not in the middle of moving to a new home. If I determine that it works, I'll be updating my post with the chip part number and where to get one. I have a production sample I got free from a chip manufacturer already, I just need the time to test it. Meanwhile, remove the IC and try it on your set. Let me know if it works.
Roundabout.
Thanks for the reply so fast. I will go to that site and read more about it. Could someone maybe point me in the direction of where this chip is in the TV and how do I get to it. That TV has been sitting in a corner for 5 months and I want to fix it. I was about to toss it until I came across this post. I wasn't going to buy a new board from sony. Thanks Roundabout for this info...
I am about to try this and if it works I will post pics of this.
I went to RadioShack got a 30w Soldering iron for about $7.99 - like this one (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2062758) it has a fine tip on it so I could remove the U24 (ic).
(plug in the Soldering iron and let it warm for a few minutes. Then touch all 3 spots of the(ic)U24 with the Soldering iron and use tweasers to grab it off the A-Board) Yep thats it.. Push the power on the TV, it should come on now.
Why are you still reading this... its done..
Did it work? Did you take pictures? Is this board hard to get to? Where is it?
Yes!! This did work.
---------------------------------------------------------------------
What you need for this job:
How to do it!!
Start by removing the stand from the bottom.
Remove the back off - (this was the fun part as the clips hold it on, so you have to pull hard to remove it)
INSIDE THE TV:
The A-Board shoud be marked on the side.
Look for the U24 its really small - (above)
In this photo u can really see how small the U24 really is.
Heat the 3 points of solder to remove the IC.
Once you get it the U24(IC) off you can tested the TV real fast by plugging it in and seeing that the green light turns on.
(DON'T TOUCH ANYTHING ON THE BACK - KEEP YOUR HANDS AWAY FROM THE POWER SUPPLY)
Now if that works then just put it back together.
I hope this helps you.
Don’t forget guys do not touch ANYTHING other then the U24.
I would put your TV on a good power supply or braker.
(updated photos and more info on how to do it)
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The Service Manual: http://eiknet.com/KLV-32U100M_KLV-40U100M.pdf
(The Service manual will show you how to open the back should be get stuck.
(update Manual 6/11/2010)
Should work on:
Good job with the photos, TV4U2. I'm glad I was able to help everyone with resurrecting their dead sets without having to pay Sony exhorbitant amounts of money for a new board, or paying someone on Ebay for a board that they probably didn't even fix.
I've been helped by many other anonymous people on the internet in the past with fixing different problems, and I am happy to give back to someone else, even people I will most likely never meet. Yes, it was a lot of troubleshooting to find this problem, several hours of tracing it out. In this case I was lucky to discover that the part isn't absolutely necessary for the TV to function. Believe me, this is a very rare occurence.
It will be interesting to see if there are many other Sony TV's with the same part failing. When I worked there, we had a lot of product that had capacitors that failed - mostly Camcorders. Many times people were charged for repairs that they shouldn't have paid for. It was a design flaw. This failure is also a design flaw, the part is underrated for use in this circuit. Will Sony own up to it? Not going to happen. This is the best way I can fight back, by telling people how to repair it themelves.
Here is a link to my original post on Agoraquest if anyone cares to read it. My post is toward the bottom of the thread discussing this failure.
http://www.agoraquest.com/viewtopic.php?topic=31197&forum=34
Thanks guys, I got the back off and having problem getting the metal cover off. Getting hung by the plugs at the bottom. I can pull it up and see and reach the u24 but I don't have a solder. I am going to get it done and I hope it works.. Thanks so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to roundabout who solve the problem and TV4u2 for the GREAT pictures.. I will update.. Don't Laugh!!!Can I heat up a small screwdriver and melt it off(u24)??? Thanks again!!
If you damage the board, or other chips its not going to work. A iron gets hot but not to hot. Hay its $8 bucks... your saving yourself a lot more then that.
Also the screws at the bottom of the Video plug come out and the jacks just to the left has a screw in it.. remove all 3 and the metal cover slides off.
I got the metal back off, I don't want to mess it up. I was thinking of sticking a lighter to a small screwdriver to heat it up, but like you said it's only $7..
Could you not pull it off with twezzers?
I used a very small flat-blade screwdriver (because I've done this before, and I know how to do it without damaging the board). I press it against the side of the chip, the side without any legs, and gently pry upwards. The pins on this IC are very small and will lift out of the solder without too much effort. Tweezers probably wouldn't be strong enough to pull it up, which is why I use a prying motion, sort of twist the screwdriver while wedged tightly against the side of the IC and the board until it begins to lift off the board. I really didn't have to pry very hard, and it didn't damage the traces at all. You just have to use caution but it's really not very difficult.
If you don't want to try it, then go buy a soldering iron, but it's really not necessary. Since I have a lot of experience with circuit boards, I wasn't too worried about it. Not that this is the ideal way to do it, of course. It's sort of "meatball surgery" but it gets the job done. Try it, and if you don't seem to be able to lift the chip off the board, you can get the iron. The other thing you could do it get a very small pair of diagonal cutters and just clip the leads where they come out of the IC until they no longer make contact with the body of the chip, and just leave the chip on the board. That would work just as well. Even if you only clip two connections, it will work because one lead left connected will not affect the circuit (at least two pins would have to be connected for the short to keep the reset line low). Give it a try, report back. Good luck.
You can do it without the iron.. But if thats not the problem ??? where you getting the new IC to replace it... I wanted to pull it off and if that wasnt the problem put it back on and move to the next step..
Clip, Pull or cutting will most likely damage the IC but will do the trick I guess..
Best of luck ...
Thank you Roundabout!
Thank you baby for fixing my TV.....Sony should be ashamed!
Great piccys too!!!!!!!!!!
@nnie,
You're welcome. I'm glad you were able to get your set up and running again. I hope others out there find this information and don't pay Sony or those ripoff people on eBay for a board that they don't need. Of course, I could have done the same thing as they do, offer a "repair service" for the boards and made some coin off of it, but I just can't take advantage of people that way. I think the good karma from helping others out more than makes up for it. As I mentioned in a previous post, others have helped me in the past with other things.Someone saved me a ton on repairing a washing machine that only needed some WD-40 to fix it - but I didn't know that until someone told me where to oil it! Hopefully others will share their knowledge in the future when they can help someone out too. My e-mail address is mill3ww (at) hotmail (dot) com if anyone needs some more assistance.
Have a great day and enjoy your set! And Sony should be ashamed, but I promise you, they aren't :)
Thank you TV4U2 and roundabout. Followed your instructions and it is working great. I am so happy to stick it to SONY for once. Amazing that a .15 cent part can cause it to shut down. Even more amazing that Sony won't just have this part changed to save the $ 500 for the consumer. Just shows you what there only motivation is. Never again will I buy anything from Sony!
One note if you are doing this repair: please pay attention to the location of the dark colored screws that go in the bottom (where it holds the stand) as some are narrow thread and some are wide thread and have a specific place when puting it back together. It is difficult to figure out once removed.
Oops I over looked them screws.. Ty for pointing that out.
I bought the solder Iron and removed u24 and it is working fine.... Thanks SO MUCH for figuring that out.. How did you figure it out anyway??? I am very greatful to have my TV working again... Is there anywhere to get a new chip? I did a search online and can't find anything on this chip..
I have also looked for this chip but keep find that its sold in qtys of 5000 or more and I just cant see get that many.. The IC was put in place and I also would like to put it back but when I removed my IC some of the board came with it. So that IC have no home now.. LOL.
>>>Cbp said: I bought the solder Iron and removed u24 and it is working fine.... Thanks SO MUCH for figuring that out.. How did you figure it out anyway??? I am very greatful to have my TV working again... Is there anywhere to get a new chip? I did a search online and can't find anything on this chip..<<<
I figured it out by using a schematic and doing some 'ol fashioned troubleshooting skills I've learned for years...besides the fact I am a technician. I am sure no one at Sony has done any real troubleshooting for a long time, they're just board changers. I know before I left there that's what they were doing on all the PC's that came in for repair - no real troubleshooting, just change the board (and charge the customer if it's out of warranty).
There are some requsites for CPU operation, one of which is a reset pulse which has a specific slew rate (depending on the processor design) that must be applied for the registers to come on in the proper order. This prevents random actions of the CPU. Since we've removed the reset pulse, the CPU is depending on Vcc rising at a certain speed, to come on in the proper order.
So far, that seems to be happening without the reset line being active, and I've turned my TV on and off many times and it still functions correctly every time. I think you might see a problem if you have a low AC line voltage condition or brownout. Unless that happens it will most likely continue to work OK. If this happens, just unplug the TV and plug it back in. It won't harm it to come on incorrectly or not at all, just do your own reset :)
Many, many people have reported to me that this fix works every time, for the dead/intermittently dead problem. Not one person has said it hasn't fixed their problem (yet). If I knew all the models this IC is used in, I'd post it as a fix for all the Sony TV's with this problem. As it is, maybe some others will see this and try it on their other model TV.
Roundabout, again, thank you for figuring this out. Two side notes for the KLV40U100M that I have fixed. One is the removal appeared improbable when I tried it without the solder wand heating up the three spots. As soon as heated up, the tweezers removed it very easily. My only concern is a piece of wire pulled up about a half inch. Doesn't seem to have caused a problem but wondered if anyone else had this issue?
Second, I hesitantly left the TV plugged to the power strip last night during a tremendous thunder storm. The electricity went out at least 8 times and thankfully, the TV came on each time without a problem.
So far so good after a week of heavy use!
Finally, have a question for posters here, does anyone know who started and pays for the maintenance of this site? I would like to contribute to them for helping us all out.
tmefs, you're very welcome.
I guess it reqires a certain "knack" of prying components off boards without damaging the board, I suppose I've done it so many times I don't worry about damaging the board...years of practice :) :)
For most people it probably would be better to use a soldering iron (and solder wick, if you have some) to remove the part. If you lifted the trace off the board, it means it got a bit too hot before you were able to lift the chip. They use heat resistant glue to lock the chip to the board during solder/assembly so it takes some amount of heat to get the glue to release. Unfortunately, it is hard to lift the chip up before the trace begins to lift off the board. Might work better if you use a small jeweler's screwdriver to gently pry the chip up while heating the side of the chip that has only one leg first.
In any case, if you did lift the trace up off the board, as long as you didn't actually break or tear the foil you can just press it back down to the PCB and don't worry about it. If we're ever able to get this chip to replace it, you can solder the new one in place and as long as it makes contact with the PCB foil it will work. In the past, when I have broken foil traces, I've just patched them with a very thin piece of wire. Scrape/clean the existing (remaining) foil down to the copper and solder the wire to it first, then jumper across the broken area to the lead of the chip or component. Not pretty, but it works. I've had to do that quite often when a component literally burns the foil right off the board. It happens more often than you might suspect.
BTW: if anyone needs the schematic, I have it available now. E-mail me at my address I mentioned in a previous post and I'll give you the link to download it.
To Roundabout,
There is some schematic in the manual I posted..
Also the PCB foil came up very easy, and I know I could fix that if needed.. but Im not going to, but ty for all your help.
Kk
TV4U2,
Oops, sorry I didn't see that you had already posted a link for the manual, I'm sure that will help someone that has problems with their set other than the U24 problem. Good job.
I have done some research on a replacement for the U24 (ASM810JEURF made by Alliance Semiconductor) and have found what I believe is a suitable substitute. It turns out that the information in the Sony schematic is incorrect for the U24, this device is supposed to be "active-high" output but the schematic shows the output as "active-low" (denoted by the line over the letters "RST" on pin 2 of the chip). Since this output is tied to the base of an NPN transistor (which reqires at least 600mv positive bias at the base to turn on), it is obvious that in order for the /reset at AD9 of the Genesis CPU to be active-low, and for the inversion to happen, U24 HAS to be active-high. Someone screwed up at Sony when they drew the schematic.
Anyway...
I have found an IC that is identical physically (SOT-23 package) and has very similar specs electrically (not exactly identical, but should work). It is made by http://www.maxim-ic.com
You can go to their website and get FREE parts, believe it or not! On their homepage, under the category Buy/Sample, click on the link for Free Samples. You may have to register on their website (free) in order to get the samples. On the "search for products to order as samples" enter in the box by "search sample part" the part number: MAX810LEUR+ (exactly as I put here). On the following page click on the button marked "Sample Now" next to this part number.
It asks you on the following page for the quantity desired, I ordered 10 of these. They sent them with no questions asked, totally free. When ordering, you can use "Sony Electronics, Inc." as the company name if you wish. You can use your home address as a shipping address, they don't verify it. No credit card was necessary. I think it took about three or four days for the part to arrive. I haven't been able to test the part yet, I still don't have my soldering iron :(
If anyone gets around to installing this part, post back here and let me know how it goes. The worst that could happen is it doesn't work. It won't damage the set, if it does short out for some reason, you can just remove it again and be back to where you were :)
Nothing to lose for free...might work fine. Good luck everyone. Hope to hear back from some Jr. Technicians soon :)
Wow!! .. Tech talk... Like NASA ... LMAO
Ive been looking for the IC/chip info (number) and had noted it on some paper and cant find it. But I see you put it down again. I only found it in qtys of 5000 :(
I will try it and see where it all gose... So if Im getting this..
The IC U24 just turns the TV off when there is a power loss or peek and with it out the set really could be damaged from brown outs or voltage peeks?
This IC is a so-called "supervisor" chip, meaning it monitors the Vcc and if it drops below a certain voltage (depending on chip parameters) it will issue a reset pulse (bandwidth/time) for 140ms if Vcc (supply voltage) drops below ~5v.
In simple terms, when the set is first turned on, and as Vcc rises, the reset input to the Genesis CPU (/reset) stays low until the supply reaches ~5v DC, at which point the U24 turns "off" and allows the /reset input to rise. At this point all the registers of the CPU are in the proper state.
The reset could also be initiated if a low voltage condition occurs, such as during a brownout, low A/C line condition. In reality, if this occured, the power supply would shut down anyway as it cannot operate properly below a certain voltage threshold. As the A/C rises, the U24 would keep the reset line low until the power supply is operating normally again.
The function of U24 is not to protect the set from brownouts or voltage surges, it only resets the CPU. Without it, the worst that will happen is the set just won't start due to the CPU being "confused" so to speak, with incorrect input conditions. It won't harm the set per se to run it without the chip, but as I've mentioned before, it's possible that it could "flake out" sometime when first turned on or under low voltage conditions.
From what I can tell, the major difference between the MAX810"L" chip and the "J" chip is the reset voltage. The J chip initates reset at ~4.0v DC and the L chip does this at ~4.63v DC. So there is less margin for error, as this is close to Vcc of approx. 5v DC. That's why I'm not certain this chip will work, it may reset the TV on smaller voltage spikes/drops. Again, it won't hurt the TV, but it may prevent it from working. In that case, you'd need to remove the chip again to restore the set to operation.
This was the closest replacement for the U24 that I've been able to find so far, and the only one you can get for free that the specs are at least close to matching. Maxim-IC has many other similar chips but they don't supply samples and have the same problem as Alliance Semiconductor - you have to order large quantites.
I hope that answers most of your questions. If not, feel free to write back with any more questions and I'll try to answer. Meanwhile, go ahead and order the IC's if you want. Hope Maxim-IC doesn't get suspicious when dozens of people working at "Sony" :) start ordering samples of this chip.
TY much for all your Tech help. Its clear now..
Also others should use some other name so everyone is not saying there with Sony. just a thought guys.. Just waiting for my free stuff now..
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