Worked late tonight so I will tackle it tomorrow night. The manual I downloaded gives me a step by step on troubleshooting the G board. Will post what I find. Nap time.
OK...read and reread the troubleshooting manual. Checked the circuits listed then started all over again. It pays to read from the start and not paragraph 3.
Followed the circuit and it was not going pass the first relay. Dropped power off and checked the contact points on the first relay. On one side 00.4 and on the other side of same relay 154.4 so I pulled the relay and will check with the local repair shop and see if I can get a replacement. If not I will order one on line.
Good news folks, I received the HV block today and installed it and with a little fiddling round I got the set to come back to life. I even hooked my laptop up to it using the vid2 input via s-video and it looks awesome, I am so happy that I finally have my big screen projection I wanted years ago I just couldn't afford it. Instead I bought a 32" sony wega that has served me well for years, now it is time to reorganize the living room to fit this monster. Thank you for all your help and I will stay around to help others out in any way I can.
That is great news dredded. Glad to hear that you achieved success with the help of this site.
I to have a update. After reading the troubleshooting manual i downloaded from this site I was able to not only determine why my G board was dead but to do a patch on it to see if it would revive. Did the patch and plugged it in. Heard a click from the second relay. Checked a few points and found DC voltage. Didn't want to push my luck so I unplugged the board. Approx 5 sec later heard the relay click off.
Now I am in a holding pattern. Wait for a new relay to arrive. Solder into board and continue to diagnose the flash 8 problem. Think I will order the Flyback after the long weekend.
I have Sony projection TV KP-51WS510 with the eight (8) blink code. The service manual definitively says "T8005 is faulty." T8005 is 1-453-285-51 FBT ASSY, NX 4006/X4/P4". I have located T8005 on the D board schematic. 1. Should I trust the service manual RE: diagnosis? 2. Is this part replacement practical to do? 3. Do you have any pointers on how to do it? 4. Can you tell me where to purchase the part? Many Thanks I wish Larry was around...
No, I would not start with the flyback. It's REALLY easy to check the hv block and frequently it causes this problem. Read the entire thread and pay attention to the photos I posted earlier.
That sounds great, I'll be checking out the HV block tomorrow. I found the Sony HV block at "Encompass Parts", along with a substitute (Asti, same PtNo). The Sony is $98, Asti is $44. Is being frugal a bad idea?
Unfortunately, elsewhere on this site I found information that Larry passed away last July. Though I just got here, reading his past posts I feel like I knew him.
I can't speak to the quality of the Asti parts as I've only ever used the original Sony parts to repair this, however I believe Encompass is a respected parts supplier to the tv repair industry and I doubt they would carry parts that would cause them problems so if it were me I'd probably try one.
I had missed the info about Larry but doing a quick forum search right now I see you are correct, he apparently has passed away - a real loss for the forum and we'll keep good thoughts for his family. RIP Larry!
Yes I did. On my trusty Heathkit VTVM all ports register ~24K ohm--I took this as really good news (ITS BAROQUE) and ordered the Asti HV Block "ETA 6 days". I can't wait.
I'm having the same problem as others ... and have read through this thread a number of times, and can't find a definitely test for HV Block.
Many reference that each port should measure "infinite resistance" to ground. This doesn't sound right, but mine is measuring "infinite resistance" to ground ... ie, a complete short, NO continuity.
Other's are referencing "no resistance" to ground. This seems more do-able.
Could someone please clarify ... am I looking for infinite resistance, or no resistance?
I'm having the same problem as others ... and have read through this thread a number of times, and can't find a definitely test for HV Block.
Many reference that each port should measure "infinite resistance" to ground. This doesn't sound right, but mine is measuring "infinite resistance" to ground ... ie, a complete short, NO continuity.
Other's are referencing "no resistance" to ground. This seems more do-able.
Could someone please clarify ... am I looking for infinite resistance, or no resistance?
I would consider the test outlined earlier in the thread as definitive - if you test each port to the ground wire and any one of them shows any resistance then the hv block is bad - at least that's been my experience and many others. I haven't seen a post yet where the hv block showed resistance and was good.
"Infininte" resistance means the meter doesn't move at all. These blocks actually do have resistance but it's very high, in the meg ohm range, and most meters don't go that high up, they just register infinite.
You're getting a bit confused in your terms - a "short" would show a very low resistance ("continuity"), an "open" would show infinite resistance (no continuity).
Using a cheap analog meter you are looking for no resistance - i.e. the meter doesn't swing back towards zero at all. A digital meter may show some if it's a good one, but it should be in the meg ohm range, if it's in the K ohm range it's bad.
If it's got 8 blinks and the hv block is good it could be the flyback transformer or a couple other things. I'm not that good and haven't worked on that many of these so I can't be of much more help if it is 8 blinks.
Check the blinks again though - if it's 6 blinks there's a voltage regulator chip that likes to go out in these so that may be the issue.
I'm Baaaack! The Asti HV Block from Encompass arrived while I was gone. I tested it, it read close to infinite resistance...good. It came as just the block: No mounting bracket, no lug on the ground wire, no connector (etc.) on the other wire--so I had to do a little soldering. NBD. I wonder if the "genuine SONY part" would have had all that stuff (for double the price)?
Carefully reassembled the set. Get ready......IT WORKS!
I think it was you that earlier posted something about LED/LCD flat screen TVs lasting 3-5 years. Is your point that these rear projection TVs are more durable?
Yes, the Sonys come with the wiring, but if I recall correctly they don't come with the mount.
I recently bought an Asti flyback for a Panasonic and it came with the hv wires attached but with no boots or connectors on the ends! The focus block connector was duck soup, but the main one that goes up to the hv block was a real booger as it's crimped on. I got it done though and the flyback cost half price of an oem one and it came with a year warranty from Acme in Orlando and I've only had the best of luck with them and their parts so I'm happy even though it was a slight pain. (btw, I asked Acme if they carried the connectors and they don't!)
I think we all need to say THANK YOU to bwilbert - it was his astute observation that one CAN test the hv block with an ohm meter back at the beginning of this thread. His observation I'm sure has helped countless people get their sets back up and running with the least amount of wasted effort!
Again, congrats! If you think about it, post back in six months or so and let us know if that Asti part is holding up for ya.
As far as the lcd/plasma longevity - wasn't me. I don't really know, I'm just a hobbyist who plays with the old rear projection crt units. I'm not a service professional so I don't see the wide variety of sets and what their issues are. Just in casual surfing it seems to me the smaller lcds are pretty good but the larger plasmas have a hard time making five years or so but that's just the feeling I get, it's not really based on measurable facts.
I have a Sony KP51WS500. I have been having the "8 blink" diagnostic code. My hv block tested good so I guess I'll have to try the flyback transformer. I have read in these posts that if it is good then, a neon bulb will flash when you turn on the set. Can anyone help me with where this bulb is supposed to be? Also does the transformer need to be soldered to the board?
If I recall correctly the bulb is mounted to the board right by the flyback.
Yes, the flyback is soldered to the board but it's easily de-soldered with the Radio Shack de-soldering iron that has a rubber bulb mounted to it.
It's hard to test a flyback without some equipment but it could also be the horizontal output transistor that drives the flyback and that's testable.
I'm not home right now but will be in a couple hours. I think I have a scrap board like yours, if so I'll post a pic of the bulb for ya. And I'll try to dig up the service manual and see if I can find the horizotnal output transistor for ya.
*) It's on a heat sink mounted near the flyback transformer.
*) It can be checked but you have to remove it from the board to do so - use a digital meter with the diode test function.
*) Usually they have a thin piece of plastic between the transistor and the heat sink - pay attention to see if there is and if there is then don't forget to reinstall it when you replace the transistor.
*) To test transistor clip one meter lead to the Base and then attach the other lead to the Collector and take a reading. Then unhook the lead from the Collector and attach it to the Emitter and take a reading. These two readings should both be roughly the same. They will either be a high or low value depending upon which lead is clipped to the Base. To further test attach the other lead to the Base and test the Collector and Emitter again - again, the two readings should be roughly the same and should be on the opposite end of the scale from the earlier readings (i.e if the initial readings were low then when the test leads are reversed they should be high).
I've never had to replace one on a Sony, but in other brands usually the HOT went out because of a bad capacitor. Exactly which one to suspect in this board I dunno and I wont have time to look at the schematic in depth for a while, maybe someone else on the forum who's worked on this can clue you in.
If the HOT is good then I would suspect the flyback transformer. If I recall correctly, the flyback doesn't come with the leads for the focus block and hv block, you have to order them separately (I think there's a note in the service manual about this). Supposedly you can remove the old ones from the flyback but the one time I tried it didn't work, they were stuck in there good (hv block and focus block ends - no problem, flyback transformer ends - wouldn't budge)
Thank you so very much for your help. I will implement your suggestions and let you know how things go.
Since you are so knowledgeable about these TV's let me give you the background of my trouble.
The TV has had an intermittent problem. The screen would fade to blue. Usually turning it off and on would resolve the issue. This has occurred only occasionally. However, Sunday it went blue and would not come back when powered up. Now when we turn it on, the blue crt glows briefly, the red and green tries to come up but they are very very dim. After a few seconds the TV turns off or goes into standby and the standby light flashes 8 times pauses and then 8 times again. Once when I tried to power up again, I got 5 flashes followed by a pause and five more. However, that has only happened once. Subsequent attempts gives the the 8 flashes.
I believe I have tested properly the resistance on the power splitter. My analog multimeter needle does not move on any ohms setting. I read that as infinite resistance and therefore an indication that it is not defective.
This is where I am and what led me to my original posts about the neon bulb and possibility of replacing the HV transformer.
As I said I will take your advice and report back. If my more detailed description gives you any more thoughts, please let me know.
I'm not overly experienced with these sets - I think I've worked on three of them. There are similarities with other sets though and I've recently worked on a hv problem on a Panasonic so I've done a little research on hv problems lately.
Your description sounds typical of either a flyback going out or a HOT going out from what I gather, and without the proper tools it's kinda hard to know which one - especially when they gotta get warmed up before they misbehave. At least that may be in your favor now - if it's not working at all from a cold start hopefully the problem will be evident now.
From what I've gathered the HOT goes out a slight bit more than the flyback, but I've also read where many techs replace both the flyback and HOT whenever there's problems with either.
Pull the HOT and test it, if it passes I'd take a shot at a flyback since you have no easy way to test it with rudimentary tools. If it doesn't pass I'd replace it and give it a shot. If I recall correctly there's usually a small transformer that feeds the HOT and the caps that like to go bad on them are usually polarized caps just on the other side of that transformer so maybe hit the schematic and see if you can spot one or two in that area, if you can spot 'em then I'd order them from Digikey, etc. - I'm sure they'd be cheap and it wouldn't hurt anything to replace them even if you're not specfically sure if they're part of the problem or not. (sometimes when you don't have tools / knowledge you just gotta make an educated guess!).
Yes, it sounds like you tested the hv block correctly and it sounds like it passed so I think you're on the right track with the flyback and or HOT.
Yes you can. I would suggest testing for the dc voltages would be more productive as the ac gets changed into dc pretty quickly.
Again, get the service manual and follow the schematics out to the connectors so you know what voltages to expect.
Did it appear the mcz3001d had been replaced? I'm just not trusting the tech that preceeded you . . .
At the time he stated he changed a IC chip. Haven't found anything out of the ordinary yet.
I found a Sony service Manual dealing with the RA 6 chassis and how to troubleshoot the power. Going to print it off and give it a whirl.
To tell you the truth I am now no longer sure that I got my set back. Same unit just thought the build date was older on the one I sent in. Oh well.
Man! You're more tolerant than I am!
You took a half dead one in and got a fully dead one back, plus a bill?!
If it's a WS510 then it's an RA6A chassis and uses this service manual:
http://www.techlore.com/download/30282/SONY-SERVICE-MANUAL-RA-6A-w-schem...
KP 51WS500
Worked late tonight so I will tackle it tomorrow night. The manual I downloaded gives me a step by step on troubleshooting the G board. Will post what I find. Nap time.
OK...read and reread the troubleshooting manual. Checked the circuits listed then started all over again. It pays to read from the start and not paragraph 3.
Followed the circuit and it was not going pass the first relay. Dropped power off and checked the contact points on the first relay. On one side 00.4 and on the other side of same relay 154.4 so I pulled the relay and will check with the local repair shop and see if I can get a replacement. If not I will order one on line.
Will post with further updates.
Not to bad so far for a diesel mechanic.
Good news folks, I received the HV block today and installed it and with a little fiddling round I got the set to come back to life. I even hooked my laptop up to it using the vid2 input via s-video and it looks awesome, I am so happy that I finally have my big screen projection I wanted years ago I just couldn't afford it. Instead I bought a 32" sony wega that has served me well for years, now it is time to reorganize the living room to fit this monster. Thank you for all your help and I will stay around to help others out in any way I can.
That is great news dredded. Glad to hear that you achieved success with the help of this site.
I to have a update. After reading the troubleshooting manual i downloaded from this site I was able to not only determine why my G board was dead but to do a patch on it to see if it would revive. Did the patch and plugged it in. Heard a click from the second relay. Checked a few points and found DC voltage. Didn't want to push my luck so I unplugged the board. Approx 5 sec later heard the relay click off.
Now I am in a holding pattern. Wait for a new relay to arrive. Solder into board and continue to diagnose the flash 8 problem. Think I will order the Flyback after the long weekend.
Cheers all and injoy the long weekend.
I did some more research on my G board.
CN5004 135V = 153.5V
I did some more research on my G board. Using a multimeter I discovered this.
CN5004
135V = 153.5V
+22V = +34.9V
-22V = -41.3V
+15V = 22.3V
-15V = -18.3V
Are these DC Voltages within spec? Or do I have another problem. Does the damaged relay that I have got jumpered out draw some DC voltage?
I have Sony projection TV KP-51WS510 with the eight (8) blink code. The service manual definitively says "T8005 is faulty." T8005 is 1-453-285-51 FBT ASSY, NX 4006/X4/P4". I have located T8005 on the D board schematic. 1. Should I trust the service manual RE: diagnosis? 2. Is this part replacement practical to do? 3. Do you have any pointers on how to do it? 4. Can you tell me where to purchase the part? Many Thanks I wish Larry was around...
Hi Big D,
No, I would not start with the flyback. It's REALLY easy to check the hv block and frequently it causes this problem. Read the entire thread and pay attention to the photos I posted earlier.
This thread may help also:
http://www.hometheatershack.com/forums/sony/30680-steves-kp51ws510-proje...
If it's not the hv block and truly is the flyback then I'd say it's still within the realm of a do it yourselfer.
I wasn't aware Larry had went anywhere, but I haven't been paying much attention to the forums over the holidays.
Take care,
Steve
Steve,
That sounds great, I'll be checking out the HV block tomorrow. I found the Sony HV block at "Encompass Parts", along with a substitute (Asti, same PtNo). The Sony is $98, Asti is $44. Is being frugal a bad idea?
Unfortunately, elsewhere on this site I found information that Larry passed away last July. Though I just got here, reading his past posts I feel like I knew him.
Big_D
Hi Big_D,
Be sure to post back what you find.
I can't speak to the quality of the Asti parts as I've only ever used the original Sony parts to repair this, however I believe Encompass is a respected parts supplier to the tv repair industry and I doubt they would carry parts that would cause them problems so if it were me I'd probably try one.
I had missed the info about Larry but doing a quick forum search right now I see you are correct, he apparently has passed away - a real loss for the forum and we'll keep good thoughts for his family. RIP Larry!
I couldnt believe it myself, or atleast I didn't want to. He truly was one of a kind.
http://www.techlore.com/forum/thread/30723/Farewell-Larry/
Hi Big_D, did you get a chance to test the hv block yet?
Steve:
Yes I did. On my trusty Heathkit VTVM all ports register ~24K ohm--I took this as really good news (ITS BAROQUE) and ordered the Asti HV Block "ETA 6 days". I can't wait.
Thanks
Yep, I think you found your problem!
Remember to test the new one too . . . just because it's new doesn't mean it's good!
Post back when you know more.
Take Care,
Steve
Steve: Unfortunately, No. Apparently Encompass didn't have the HV Block in stock, it's back ordered, and I'm still waiting for it....
Now I'm going on a trip and won't be able to try the fix until March. Arghhhhhh!
D
I'm having the same problem as others ... and have read through this thread a number of times, and can't find a definitely test for HV Block.
Many reference that each port should measure "infinite resistance" to ground. This doesn't sound right, but mine is measuring "infinite resistance" to ground ... ie, a complete short, NO continuity.
Other's are referencing "no resistance" to ground. This seems more do-able.
Could someone please clarify ... am I looking for infinite resistance, or no resistance?
Thanks, Neal
I'm having the same problem as others ... and have read through this thread a number of times, and can't find a definitely test for HV Block.
Many reference that each port should measure "infinite resistance" to ground. This doesn't sound right, but mine is measuring "infinite resistance" to ground ... ie, a complete short, NO continuity.
Other's are referencing "no resistance" to ground. This seems more do-able.
Could someone please clarify ... am I looking for infinite resistance, or no resistance?
Thanks, Neal
Hi Neal,
I would consider the test outlined earlier in the thread as definitive - if you test each port to the ground wire and any one of them shows any resistance then the hv block is bad - at least that's been my experience and many others. I haven't seen a post yet where the hv block showed resistance and was good.
"Infininte" resistance means the meter doesn't move at all. These blocks actually do have resistance but it's very high, in the meg ohm range, and most meters don't go that high up, they just register infinite.
You're getting a bit confused in your terms - a "short" would show a very low resistance ("continuity"), an "open" would show infinite resistance (no continuity).
Using a cheap analog meter you are looking for no resistance - i.e. the meter doesn't swing back towards zero at all. A digital meter may show some if it's a good one, but it should be in the meg ohm range, if it's in the K ohm range it's bad.
If it's got 8 blinks and the hv block is good it could be the flyback transformer or a couple other things. I'm not that good and haven't worked on that many of these so I can't be of much more help if it is 8 blinks.
Check the blinks again though - if it's 6 blinks there's a voltage regulator chip that likes to go out in these so that may be the issue.
Hope that helps!
Steve
Steve:
I'm Baaaack! The Asti HV Block from Encompass arrived while I was gone. I tested it, it read close to infinite resistance...good. It came as just the block: No mounting bracket, no lug on the ground wire, no connector (etc.) on the other wire--so I had to do a little soldering. NBD. I wonder if the "genuine SONY part" would have had all that stuff (for double the price)?
Carefully reassembled the set. Get ready......IT WORKS!
I think it was you that earlier posted something about LED/LCD flat screen TVs lasting 3-5 years. Is your point that these rear projection TVs are more durable?
Hey, thanks a million (a million thanks, that is)
Big D
Congrats Big_D!!!!
Yes, the Sonys come with the wiring, but if I recall correctly they don't come with the mount.
I recently bought an Asti flyback for a Panasonic and it came with the hv wires attached but with no boots or connectors on the ends! The focus block connector was duck soup, but the main one that goes up to the hv block was a real booger as it's crimped on. I got it done though and the flyback cost half price of an oem one and it came with a year warranty from Acme in Orlando and I've only had the best of luck with them and their parts so I'm happy even though it was a slight pain. (btw, I asked Acme if they carried the connectors and they don't!)
I think we all need to say THANK YOU to bwilbert - it was his astute observation that one CAN test the hv block with an ohm meter back at the beginning of this thread. His observation I'm sure has helped countless people get their sets back up and running with the least amount of wasted effort!
Again, congrats! If you think about it, post back in six months or so and let us know if that Asti part is holding up for ya.
As far as the lcd/plasma longevity - wasn't me. I don't really know, I'm just a hobbyist who plays with the old rear projection crt units. I'm not a service professional so I don't see the wide variety of sets and what their issues are. Just in casual surfing it seems to me the smaller lcds are pretty good but the larger plasmas have a hard time making five years or so but that's just the feeling I get, it's not really based on measurable facts.
Take care,
Steve
I have a Sony KP51WS500. I have been having the "8 blink" diagnostic code. My hv block tested good so I guess I'll have to try the flyback transformer. I have read in these posts that if it is good then, a neon bulb will flash when you turn on the set. Can anyone help me with where this bulb is supposed to be? Also does the transformer need to be soldered to the board?
Thanks!
If I recall correctly the bulb is mounted to the board right by the flyback.
Yes, the flyback is soldered to the board but it's easily de-soldered with the Radio Shack de-soldering iron that has a rubber bulb mounted to it.
It's hard to test a flyback without some equipment but it could also be the horizontal output transistor that drives the flyback and that's testable.
I'm not home right now but will be in a couple hours. I think I have a scrap board like yours, if so I'll post a pic of the bulb for ya. And I'll try to dig up the service manual and see if I can find the horizotnal output transistor for ya.
Take care,
Steve
Not my pic but I drew an arrow to what I'm sure is the neon light. If I recall it's designated as NL-8001.
Just got home and looked at my salvage board, yeah that's it (where I put the purple arrow in the above pic).
I'm a little tuckered, I'll look for the HOT tomorrow.
OK, couldn't sleep . . .
The horizontal output transistor is Q8043.
*) It's on a heat sink mounted near the flyback transformer.
*) It can be checked but you have to remove it from the board to do so - use a digital meter with the diode test function.
*) Usually they have a thin piece of plastic between the transistor and the heat sink - pay attention to see if there is and if there is then don't forget to reinstall it when you replace the transistor.
*) To test transistor clip one meter lead to the Base and then attach the other lead to the Collector and take a reading. Then unhook the lead from the Collector and attach it to the Emitter and take a reading. These two readings should both be roughly the same. They will either be a high or low value depending upon which lead is clipped to the Base. To further test attach the other lead to the Base and test the Collector and Emitter again - again, the two readings should be roughly the same and should be on the opposite end of the scale from the earlier readings (i.e if the initial readings were low then when the test leads are reversed they should be high).
I've never had to replace one on a Sony, but in other brands usually the HOT went out because of a bad capacitor. Exactly which one to suspect in this board I dunno and I wont have time to look at the schematic in depth for a while, maybe someone else on the forum who's worked on this can clue you in.
If the HOT is good then I would suspect the flyback transformer. If I recall correctly, the flyback doesn't come with the leads for the focus block and hv block, you have to order them separately (I think there's a note in the service manual about this). Supposedly you can remove the old ones from the flyback but the one time I tried it didn't work, they were stuck in there good (hv block and focus block ends - no problem, flyback transformer ends - wouldn't budge)
Good luck! Remember to post back!!!
Steve
Steve,
Thank you so very much for your help. I will implement your suggestions and let you know how things go.
Since you are so knowledgeable about these TV's let me give you the background of my trouble.
The TV has had an intermittent problem. The screen would fade to blue. Usually turning it off and on would resolve the issue. This has occurred only occasionally. However, Sunday it went blue and would not come back when powered up. Now when we turn it on, the blue crt glows briefly, the red and green tries to come up but they are very very dim. After a few seconds the TV turns off or goes into standby and the standby light flashes 8 times pauses and then 8 times again. Once when I tried to power up again, I got 5 flashes followed by a pause and five more. However, that has only happened once. Subsequent attempts gives the the 8 flashes.
I believe I have tested properly the resistance on the power splitter. My analog multimeter needle does not move on any ohms setting. I read that as infinite resistance and therefore an indication that it is not defective.
This is where I am and what led me to my original posts about the neon bulb and possibility of replacing the HV transformer.
As I said I will take your advice and report back. If my more detailed description gives you any more thoughts, please let me know.
Hi Joey,
I'm not overly experienced with these sets - I think I've worked on three of them. There are similarities with other sets though and I've recently worked on a hv problem on a Panasonic so I've done a little research on hv problems lately.
Your description sounds typical of either a flyback going out or a HOT going out from what I gather, and without the proper tools it's kinda hard to know which one - especially when they gotta get warmed up before they misbehave. At least that may be in your favor now - if it's not working at all from a cold start hopefully the problem will be evident now.
From what I've gathered the HOT goes out a slight bit more than the flyback, but I've also read where many techs replace both the flyback and HOT whenever there's problems with either.
Pull the HOT and test it, if it passes I'd take a shot at a flyback since you have no easy way to test it with rudimentary tools. If it doesn't pass I'd replace it and give it a shot. If I recall correctly there's usually a small transformer that feeds the HOT and the caps that like to go bad on them are usually polarized caps just on the other side of that transformer so maybe hit the schematic and see if you can spot one or two in that area, if you can spot 'em then I'd order them from Digikey, etc. - I'm sure they'd be cheap and it wouldn't hurt anything to replace them even if you're not specfically sure if they're part of the problem or not. (sometimes when you don't have tools / knowledge you just gotta make an educated guess!).
Yes, it sounds like you tested the hv block correctly and it sounds like it passed so I think you're on the right track with the flyback and or HOT.
Take care, post back what develops!
Steve
Pages