Hi Guys,
I just picked one of these units up. I wasn't really in the market as I'm pretty busy right now but it was just too tempting - literally the conversation went like "we're moving tomorrow and we're NOT moving a big, heavy, broken TV - come and get it"!
I picked it up but had to store it in my folks's garage as I was already working on a 51" set of the same model for a friend (these things are kinda like cars, there's just so much parking space available! ;->).
I have the 51" fixed and it's off to it's new home so this one will be finding it's way over here shortly so I thought I'd start a thread on the project.
The owners said they had it looked at and it was a convergence issue but they couldn't afford the fix and they did describe what a convergence problem looks like. I haven't fired it up yet so I'm not 100% sure it's a convergence issue -> I learned a long time ago that when you service stuff confirm what it's doing for yourself before you start!
I'm just gathering information for the project right now and am just assuming it's a convergence issue.
I found a service manual here on techlore, it doesn't have the schematics with it though, if anyone has a link to the schematics please post it for me.
Doing a little research on this series it seems the following are the common failure items in the the convergence circuit:
(2) STK392-560 Convergence ICs
So far in my repairs I've purchased my parts from Acme Sales in Orlando, FL and have had excellent luck. Acme does have the STK392-560s but they also have the following:
STK392-570 Imitation
High quality Chinese imitation
We guarantee these to be as
good as the original Sanyo ICs
Also replaces STK392-560
90-day Warranty
Mitsubishi # 267P150010
I've read a few posts at various places on the net that recommend the 570s over the 560s as the 560s are 5 amp rated and the 570s are 8 amp rated and are compatible for use in 560 circuits (and I note that Acme even says "Also replaces STK392-560"). What's the move here, real Sanyo 560s or imitation 570s that Acme is putting their reputation behind and claiming are as good as the Sanyos? Have the 570s proven to be a viable sub for the 560s?
(2) 5 amp, 90V IC link fuses
PS5001
PS5002
These are on the "G" board that stands vertically to the left of the "D" board that has the convergence ICs.
These are "IC Link" type fuses from the factory but pico fuses can be used.
From what I gather at least one of these almost always goes out.
(6) 3.15 amp, 90V IC link fuses
PS8001
PS8002
PS8003
PS8004
PS8005
PS8006
These are all located on the "D" board.
These are "IC Link" type fuses from the factory but pico fuses can be used.
I've noticed some use 3.5 amp in leu of the 3.15 as they are easier to find but Acme has the 3.15 amp ones so I'll stick with what was stock.
From what I gather these don't go out as often as the 5 amp ones on the "G" board but they go out often enough that they MUST be checked.
(30?) 4.7 ohm, 1/2watt, metal film, 1% resistors.
R8045
R8046
R8051
R8053
R8059
R8060
R8063
R8064
R8066
R8067
R8069
R8070
R8073
R8075
R8078
R8079
R8081
R8082
R8085
R8086
R8089
R8090
R8091
R8092
R8093
R8094
R8097
R8098
R8105
R8106
It seems from what I've read that burnt resistors are not as much of a problem on these sets, the bigger problem is blown IC link fuses. Do I take it that those fuses usually blow fast enough that they usually save the resistors?
I can't find specifics on which resistors commonly fail, all I've found is some posts where people have made the STK & fuse repairs and are still having problems - they are usually directed to "check the resistors near the STKs". A couple posts I found though did mention 4.7 ohm, 1/2 watt resistors as the ones to check (but didn't list their parts designations or quantity). What I've listed above are the 4.7 ohm 1/2 watt resistors I found in the service manual under the "D" board parts listing. Again, schematics would be nice if anyone has any.
The 4.7 ohm 1% resistors are kind of hard to find too - they spec 1% tolerance and I'm assuming there's a reason for that so I'd like to adhere to it, finding 1% tolerance in this ohmage and wattage is not easy though! I imagine one could go up in wattage, though I don't like to as I like to stay close to stock. I suppose if one couldn't find any 1% tolerance they could buy some 5% and just use an accurate meter and select the ones that were within 5% tolerance (i.e. between 4.65 and 4.75 ohms).
Does anyone have any input on the resistors? There are some lower value, fairly high wattage resistors on the "D" board listed in the manual - do they need ohm'd out too?
The only other thing I see that's a bit different than the other convergence repairs I've done is that the flyback transformer that supplies high voltage to the hv block is on the back of the board that has the convergence ICs. I just recently unhooked some HV cables doing a repair on a Sony so I'm confident I can unhook the hv cable without damaging it, but I'm also taking note that many professional service techs have posted they don't mess with unhooking and potentially damaging the hv lead, they just uhook everything else and then carefully flip the board over and work on it in the set so I'm going to follow their lead and attempt to do the repair in set (I'm picking up that there's enough of a risk of damaging the hv cable that it's best to not mess with it unless you have to - even for an experienced professional). If it proves to be too uncomfortable for me then I'll unhook the hv cable and remove the board so I can work on it more comfortably (I really like working at my nice comfy work bench rather than squatting on the floor!), but the plan is to try to put up with a little discomfort and save me a potentially self-inflicted problem.
As I work on the set I'll try to take pics and do some follow up posts.
Any comments, tips, etc. would be most appreciated!
Take Care,
Steve
Hi Guys,
Just a quick update. I went over and dusted the insides of the unit out tonight, and I added some chest handles on each side -> I'm just tired of wrestling these brutes with nothing to hold on to! They seem like they will work out good, we'll see when we move it over here tomorrow.
/Steve
Check the download section for the ra-6a manual w/schematics.
The HV wire MIGHT come right out following the procedure in the manual, if it's a push down and twist type that doesn't require a special release tool, sure makes checking the boards much easier..
You need the boards out to check for bad solder joints, resolder the flyback, HOT, transformers, coils.
Acme got started supplying high quality replacement parts, some of the stk's are no longer in production, so I'm sure he is trying to develop sources that can produce oem quality.
Try parts-express for flameproof resistors and pico fuses if you are having trouble finding them.
Hi Alnp,
Thanks for the help! I just downloaded the service manual and schematics.
I just took the HV wires out and replaced an HV block on a 51" Sony of this model. It wasn't bad at all - just like the service manual says, push down and turn 90 degrees. I read somewhere though that if you are going to unhook the HV cable to remove the "D" board it's best to unhook it from the HV block rather than the flyback transformer - has that been your experience?
With the units I've worked on in the past I've just removed and replaced the convergence ics along with any fuses or resistors that needed replaced. I haven't resoldered any other connections. Do I take it on these boards the fbt, etc. need re-soldered?
I've had really good luck with Acme so I'm thinking I may try their knockoff 570s.
I see also that Surburban Electronics (sewsales55) on fleaBay have really cheap prices on the STKs and they give a 6 month warranty. They have a 99.9 percent feedback over almost 4,000 sales. Obviously some factory in China has figured out how to make a decent knockoff as Acme is getting some, so it makes one wonder if Suburban hasn't also found that factory. Then again, most give feedback on fleaBay right away and can't change it later so maybe their stuff isn't lasting and we're just not hearing about it. I also don't know how hard it is to get them to honor the six month warranty. All in all I think I'll stick with Acme, but I would like to hear from those who've dealt with Subrban.
I did find some resistors on fleaBay, but again I really prefer to deal with places that have established a good reputation with these types of products. I'll give parts-express a look, thanks!
I think we'll move this set over tomorrow night, I'll post back what I find when we do.
Take care,
Steve
Hi Guys,
Just a quick update - we moved the beast over to my place tonight. Those chest handles I put on either side worked SWEET!!! It was a snap to move when you have something to hold on to!
There's one minor issue - it's got six casters under it and two have the wheels missing and one's got the stem bent terribly. I looked around town and didn't seen any that small, but I'm thinking I may remove all the casters and just use soem blocks with those teflon sliders. One thing that's annoying with my 56" JVC is that when I pull it out of the entertainment center to hook stuff up and then slide it back in it's kinda hard to get it centered left and right again as you gotta get the casters turned the right way - with the sliders that wouldn't be an issue at all.
And, yes, I've now confirmed it's a convergence issue so I'll get parts ordered for it and post back as I dig deeper into it.
Take Care,
Steve
Hi Guys,
My parts are still on order and I’ve got a lot of overtime this week but I was still itching to get to work on the new set. There are a couple pico fuses on the “G” board that frequently get blown when the convergence ic’s go out so I thought I would remove the G board today and check those fuses.
I’m not claiming this is the best, only, nor safest method – it’s just the one I used. You’re responsible for your own safety!
The G board is mounted vertically to the left of the D board. Removing it was pretty straight forward with only one minor surprise that I’ll get to in a bit.
There’s a bundle of wires that runs along the back of the set and to the various boards. Tied in with this bundle is a ground wire that goes up to a metal cross member by the HV Bloc, CRTs, etc.. It’ll kinda put a tether on the bundle while you’re trying to unhook things so unhook it first.
There’s a red wire that’s larger than most but smaller than the wire that feeds the HV Block that comes out of the Flyback Transformer. I believe it’s called the Focus Wire. It’s longer than it needs to be and the excess is gathered up and held by a couple twist retainers on the back of the G board. I put a loose wrap of masking tape around the bundle and then removed it from the retainers.
Now you can undo one or two of the wire bundle retainers and remove the G board retainer screw and slide the G board towards you and then lift up and it’ll come right out. I’m sure one could simply remove the metal back panel and probably get to any solder points you would need to without removing any more cables but I prefer to work on things at my nice comfy work bench rather than on the floor so I proceeded to label and remove all the cables and then the board from it’s plastic mount.
Removing the cables was straight forward with the exception of one surprise. Connectors CN5005 and CN5006 are standard spade push on lugs. CN5005 is on the lower part of the board towards you and it came off with just a bit of effort. CN5006 though wouldn’t let go and I could see the lug wiggling in the board! I removed all the other cables, the metal back piece (four screws and it comes off), and popped the board out of it’s plastic carrier (four screws hold it in and then there are five plastic tabs you gotta depress to get the board to come out of the carrier) and then I could get to the solder pads of that lug. The pads looked different, the solder was a flat paint kinda finish, just looked porous/rough and I could see the lug pins moving as I wiggled the lug. I used my de-soldering bulb to de-solder the lugs and it came out of the board. Then I grabbed onto the lug with a pair of needle nose pliers and pulled on it and the lug and socket separated. The pc board looked fine so I inserted the lug and used some duct tape to hold it in place while I soldered it back in. I’m glad I did go a step further and remove the cables as I’m sure this would’ve caused some kinda problem in the future. Makes me wonder how many other such joints are lurking in there!
Once I had the board out and repaired I tested the two pico fuses on the board. In circuit PS5001 would start out at around 50Kohm resistance and then slowly bleed upwards towards infinity. I figured the fuse was blown and a cap somewhere in the circuit was causing that behavior. I pulled the fuse out and tested it and sure enough it was blown. Testing PS5002 in circuit showed a direct short so that fuse appears to be good.
I see there’s an MCZ3001D chip in the upper left corner of this board. It’s one of the chips that likes to fail in these sets so it’s tempting to replace it with a MCZ3001DB chip while I have it out, but I’m resisting the urge as it’s best to fix just one problem at a time. It’s not that hard to pull this board so if it goes out in the future it’ll be a pretty minor repair so there’s no real need to do a pre-emptive strike on it.
That’s as far as I got today. I probably wont get to the D board until next weekend. I’ll try to take some pics as I work on it, though I really suck as a photographer.
Any and all comments, tips, suggestions, questions are welcome – I’m trying to make this as clear as possible!
Take care,
Steve
I was cleaning the set up as there was a ton of dust and cob webs in it when I had a slight accident with the front screen and a ceiling fan (oh noooooo!)!!!
My loss is your gain, I'm parting it out on fleaBay.
Working D board with STK 392-570s from Acme and the focus and hv block leads undamaged and still attached is item # 180552905619
I thought I would salvage the boards, the hv block, focus block, and remote. If anyone needs anything else off of it speak up soon before the carcass goes to the landfill!
/Steve
Do Not remove the HV and focus cables when doing this repair. Loosen tie-downs that hold them in place and leave them connected. Unplug other connectors from sockets and mark where they came from. The board will twist out far enough to allow soldering on the bottom and IC removal from the top.
Many DIY attempts at Sony Convergence Repair end up with a junked TV from user induced faults or poor quality Internet "Shopping Cart" ICs. My advice is to get someone competent that can do Sony 57ws510 TV Repair and have the job done correctly and adjusted and cleaned if required.
It is considerably more complicated than changing a fuse.
Robert
You do it your way Robert and I'll do it mine!
I did the initial repair by leaving the focus and hv wires hooked up and I'll never do it again. I just can't get comfortable working on the floor and my odds of dorking the board are greater by trying solder while on the floor than my odds of screwing up the hv leads are.
Seriously, the hv leads are not that much of an animal - take it off at the hv block. Push in and while pushing in pull the boot up, then while still pushing in twist the thing towards you (counter clockwise when looking straight into the hv block) 90 degrees and let up - it'll come out. If not then try again, don't force it. It'll come out without much fooling around. The focus block should also come off at the block, just pull it off.
It's more than changing a fuse, but it's not that hard either. tvrepairkits.com have many happy customers - that's not mystery, most convergence repairs aren't that difficult. You are correct on using quality parts though - I've found Acme in Orlando Florida to be a good reliable supplier of STK chips.
Again, you do it your way and I'll do it mine -> and I'll never work on one of these on the floor again! A couple minutes unhooking the hv and flocus leads and then I can take the thing to my nice comfy well lit work bench and concentrate on repairing the board without distraction from being uncomfortable.
Oh, I see you have a vested interest in telling people they can't do this - by checking your profile it appears you work for a service company. You list:
http://calgary.convergencerepair.com/index.asp on your profile.
On the site you list:
One Visit Complete TV Repair
Convergence tv repairs can be completed with one visit. Here is what In Home Convergence Repair costs:
1) $35 S/call
(+$1 mile outside service area)
2) $120 Access and repair convergence circuit
3) $102 parts (inc: 2 X IC, resistors and fuses as required)
$257 Total Cash
Yeah, you probably don't want people fixing their own for less than $100!
Hi Slr_65,
There are millions of this type of TV still in use and they are excellent quality products when working correctly. I think it is great if DIYers get them working on their own. Occasionally some of the DIY repairs work out. Many of the requests in techlore for convergence repair TV advice involve people that have replaced ICs and other parts in Sony TVs and still have no joy.
We encounter customers regularily that have bought ICs really cheap online and installed them with no success. Many times they have secondary problems that are related to:
1. Poor quality ICs that do not work at all or short out and cause a number of low-ohm resistors to burn up.
2. Damaging printed circuit boards or connectors while removing the boards to access ICs
3. Poor soldering techniques
4. Trying to find and repair other faults when the initial problem (resistors, fuses and ICs) has not been fixed.
5. Not recognizing and identifying other faults unrelated to the repair they are attempting.
6. Not recognising that repair is complete and adjustment is required.
7. Re-installing boards incorrectly with plugs in the wrong place or not plugged in at all.
8. Changing parts that are not defective in an incorrect manner or with the wrong part. This is common with other makes where inexperienced, non-technical salesmen sell "substitute" STK ICs that many times do not work correctly in the circuit without re-design.
A competent and experienced technician can usually evaluate the convergence fault from the symptoms displayed On-Screen. Usually he know what has to be replaced before opening the TV (what specific resitors, fuses or ICs). He can also evaluate accurately if the CRTs and the rest of the TV are in good shape or need repair.
The technician will also know how to access and replace the parts without doing damage. When the parts have been replaced he will then know what and how to adjust for the best picture.
An experienced technician knows where to get the right parts for the job, not buy ICs that cost from $4.99 to $8.99. The technician guarantees his work and can not afford to buy cheap parts from questionable sources.
He also has to "do it right" the first time or he will end up spending his time doing estimates on cheap stereos and CD players in an electronic shop that fixes anything with free estimates. (With a sign that says "We Fix Anything - Free Estmates") The estimates are "free" because the expertise is of little or no value. This type of shop typically has piles of unfixed electronic products, then they can get replacement parts cheaper than the Internet Shopping Carts.
You have 2 choices with electronic repairs for your TV products. Try and do it yourself or get competent help.
Occasionally some DIY repairs are completed successfully and all is good. Some problems are relatively obvious or not complicated to tackle. Original or "good as" original parts may be available.
Other times there are many steps and opportunities to have a problem. With a Sony convergence repair there are at least 10 specific tasks that have to be done correctly just to get to the stage where the ICs are removed. Doing any of the steps incorrectly can cause problems.
Sony TV Convergence Repair is one of the most difficult TV repairs encountered by any TV shop. The difficulty level, compared to other TVs and other repairs is 10/10. Senior technicians in TV shops are usually assigned to these jobs.
Your comment regarding a "vested" interest is funny. Look a little further in the profile and you will see many comments or answers offered for different TV problems over the last few years. I apologize for the cynicism regarding Internet parts, but we have purchased parts from some of the largest Shopping Carts and received the poorest quality, useless parts, Specifically STK392 ICs and DLP/LCD bulbs. You have a choice, buy cheap or buy good. We also see them selling parts that will not work in the TV, as they claim. Since the parts are under $10, the time wasted dealing with this scum and shipping back for replacement costs more than getting the correct parts elsewhere.
Similar things are currently rampant with LCD/DLP TV bulbs. Useless, poor quality or condemned bulbs are sold cheap and do not work for long. We see it daily with customers that are misled by cheap Shopping Cart ads.
DIY is great. Change the sparkplugs, oil and filter on your car. Even try to dissassemble and repair your engine and transmission if you think you can handle it. Especially with no tools and experience. Many people will end up junking the car. Same as Sony Convergence Repair.
Robert
Hi Robert,
your posts tonight seemed strange to me - pretty much like a sales pitch for a service company.
You started out with the admonishment to not unhook the focus and hv wires to a couple of Sony threads - one on repairing convergence on a KP57WS510 which is at least on topic but I don't really find it that helpful. Seriously, I think instructing an amateur to get on the floor to do this soldering is a real dis-service! The floor is uncomfortable, nothing is handy, and the lighting probably sucks. Couple with that someone not very experienced with soldering and you have a recipe for disaster. The focus block wire is nothing, it just pulls out. The hv wire is also very simple to remove if you know how. In this thread we've told them how and I even gave 'em pics so I think just about any DIYer can handle it without issue. Once those are unhooked they can move the board to a work bench, or more likely the kitchen table - either place is light years ahead of the floor and the odds of making a soldering error or elsewise damaging the board I feel is much less. The other Sony thread was about the Sony 8 blink problem and how it is frequently an hv block problem and how to test and repair it. Telling us not to remove the hv wires in that thread is plain silly - we HAVE to! Your post was completely off topic.
Your posts then moved on to DIYers using poor quality parts. That's true, but it's been covered time and time again so those reading the threads already know it - so no value was added.
Then your post pretty much moves on to saying it's not that easy and we should hire a professional. Yeah, whatever. The truth is it's not that hard and a layman who works slowly and carefully can almost certainly do it.
I'm chuckling that only senior technicians in the shops get to do these Sony repairs! If they're a service tech I would hope they could handle it by the time they get their CETs!
These Sonys aren't as easy as a JVC, but they aren't any harder than the Philips I've worked on - especially when you know how to take the hv lead out and can get the board up to a bench.
You also posted to the samsung hdtv 1080i picture problem thread and really didn't offer any help either - just that your company does the repairs and that they are in several cities in Canada. Again, sounds more like an ad to me than someone looking to help others service their broken set.
I think also you're losing sight of one very important fact here - and many owners do too. Yes, a few years ago these sets sold for thousands of dollars, but they just aren't worth that much these days. Look on CraigsList and you are lucky to get $500 for a 56+" set. Smaller sets go for less. It's pretty hard to justify a professional at those prices as the cost of the repair quickly approaches what it's worth. Another aspect of this is that these are big and bulky and when they break it's usually the push the owner needed to buy a new lcd/plasma/led set as they want a nice thin set that hangs on the wall. It may not be a better set, but they want that nice light flat screen none the less. Most landfills charge a few bucks to take tvs. Soooo, when the convergence goes out and many of these sets get replaced the owners try to avoid paying the landfill charge so the broken set gets put on CraigsList for free to $50. Realising if you screw up and dork the set that you can start over again for $50 is really quite freeing! I dunno how many people I've seen go to the ends of the earth to recover their two thousand dollar set when in reality they spending a ton to recover a $50 set! Cut bait, hit Craigslist, probably end up with a bigger tv. Spend $75 at most on parts and you're good to go again! You can do that a couple three times before you approach the cost of a professional repair . . . and if you can't get it done in that amount of tries then you should hire a professional.
I chuckled at your car analogy too . . . would you care for a ride in my t-bucket roadster? ;->
Ha Ha,
Would you rather drive a new Lada or a 10 year old Cadillac. The point of repairing your Sony TV is not that you plan to sell it, but the picture from reasonable viewing distance is excellent when compared to a new Chinese 42" lcd or plasma TV from Walmart. Of course there is the added thrill of spending money on junk with the new TV.
Robert
No selling isn't the point, but sometimes it's cheaper to replace it than to hunt down a specific part or problem. If you're chasing your tail trying to trouble shoot especially, it's probably cheaper to just find another set on CraigsList - most of them really do just have a convergence issue which is easily repaired by an amateur - even a Sony!