Who buys UMD movies? ME, THAT'S WHO

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Steven Jones
Who buys UMD movies? ME, THAT'S WHO

No stranger to debate, I now officially invite all critics to respond to my claim that Sony's new UMD format is a legitimate media option - despite the fact that it ONLY works on the Sony PSP.

I have the PSP (of course) and just bought my 4th movie, Sin City. The other movies were actually copies of DVDs I already owned but Sin City was different.

I would like to think that after being burned many times for buying the first edition of a new DVD release only to have the super deluxe ultra advanced exclusive directors-cut collector-series version show up in stores months later (which of course I have to buy), this particular UMD purchase makes more sense. There is no way that this first Sin City DVD is the only version of this movie. So while I wait for Rodriguez and company to deliver the real goods, I can at least enjoy the movie anywhere on my shiny PSP.

Tie Guy
I guess what it boils down to

I guess what it boils down to is how many times you're willing to buy the same movie. I, for one, hate purchasing the same film multiple times. I would much rather buy the film on a format that works on my home system, laptop, etc., but be able rip the DVD into another format compatible with my PSP. While this is possible, it's certainly not easy.

I don't consider 20 bucks for a disc only playable on my PSP to be a great value. At least with a DVD I can always play it in my laptop, which is normally with me anyway. DVD is both a home, AND portable option.

I also find it bizzare that Sony continues to make a mockery of the core audience that bought the PSP to begin with. Isn't is supposed to be a gaming machine? Currently, there are more movies available for PSP than games. So while Sony is busy repackaging movies that most of us already own, Nintendo is busy making innovative and entertaining game titles.

Of course, if you have the money to buy every movie twice, then you can consider UMD to be a viable portable format. For the rest of us that have budgets, we'd rather buy the movie on the format that gives us the most value for the dollar. That being said, I'd rather enjoy my movie on a big-screen with surround system or 15" laptop, than on a PSP system anyday.

Opinions?

Ron Repking (not verified)
What I don't understand is

What I don't understand is why anyone would get excited about watching a movie on that tiny screen. I personally wouldn't ever use it to watch a movie. My laptop comes with me on plane and train rides, so I can watch whatever DVD I want on it.

If I wanted more portability than carrying around my laptop, I'd buy a cheap portable DVD player. For the same cost as 4 or 5 UMD movies, I would have access to my entire DVDs collection. If I was on the road, I could easily rent a DVD to watch, which I can't do with UMD (at least not yet).

Eric Daugherty (not verified)
I'm not at all impressed with

I'm not at all impressed with the UMD concept. That last thing I want is a separate collection of movies for watching on small devices. They should just build in a way to transfer DVDs to the PSP (or some media) under 'fair use'. Of course, there is no revenue there so...

How are UMD sales going anyway. Does anyone have any numbers?

Steven Jones (not verified)
Of course you know, this

Of course you know, this means Tech War!

Let's start with the obvious differences between the DVD and UMD media. First, UMD discs are MUCH smaller than DVDs. I can carry 5 UMD movies in my shirt pocket without looking strange (or any stranger than I normally do). There is no convenient way to carry around DVD movies with you without a bag or carrying case. Then there is the fragility of the DVD media. Being large, they are much more likely to break and without individual sleeves (not included in any DVD package I've ever bought) they are extremely susceptible to scratches and related damage. This is not the case with UMD.

As to whether the PSP is an appropriate movie playback device, I think you will find overwhelming support that its screen is certainly up for the task. If the "laptop argument" is simply about screen real estate, then of course there is no way for the PSP to compete. The real issue there is whether you want to drag around a laptop everywhere you want to watch a movie. If I have a few favorite movie scenes that I like to share with friends, its much easier to whip out the PSP than firing up a laptop. I've owned several portable video devices and I just don't buy the "small screen" argument. I think if you really enjoy watching movies, then the portability of the playback device is huge because it means more opportunities to watch!

Also, laptops are fine for plane or train trips since you are already lugging the machine anyway. , though I will never see the logic in buying a single purpose device like a portable DVD player. The point you are missing about the PSP is that it isn't meant to replace the laptop. It is first and foremost a gaming machine. If you buy one, it better be because you intend to play games. And if you own it and carry it around with you to play games, then there isn't a laptop vs. PSP portability issue. You simply have both.

And I never implied you should duplicate your entire home movie collection on UMD. I am a big fan of legally reformatting my DVDs to play on the PSP but unless I invest half my life savings in Sony Memory Sticks, I will either sacrifice video quality during the transfer or have fewer titles to fit in the available memory space.

BTW, 3 against one is hardly fair. You should recruit some more people on your side! HA!

Eric Daugherty (not verified)
If you have a few scenes that

If you have a few scenes that you watch and show off, just rip those instead of buying an entire copy of the movie just to 'show off'.

Anyway, I don't generally find portable video compelling so I've already lost interest.

Tie Guy
The quality of the screen is

The quality of the screen is fine for playback, that's not really the point. My whole beef with the current state of the PSP is that it's supposed to be a gaming machine, but the current software emphasis is on movies. It's cheap and profitable for them to re-release pre-existing content on a new format than to create new games. Sorry, but Nintendo is killing them on games. Let's also not forget that games for the PSP are like 50 bucks, which is another reason why all portables have failed in the past. Portable games need to be affordable.

I can't justify spending 15 to 20 dollars to buy another copy of a movie I already own, which are already playable on portable devices better suited to playing movies. Set a laptop aside, there are portable DVD players that cost less than a PSP and have a bigger screen.

Think about this for a moment, it's rather scary.

-See movie in theater - $9 (If you go alone. Double that if you don't.)
-Buy movie on DVD when released - $15 to $20
-Buy movie on PSP $15 to $25

Total: $39 to $63 for one movie. Not this kid!

I'm going to buy a movie on one versatile format. Okay, so it's not convenient to watch a movie in the grocery line. Oh well, I'll be bored for 10 minutes, but at least I'll be able to afford my groceries. Until more emphasis is placed on gaming, I don't consider the PSP to be a gaming machine. I consider it another way for Sony to repackage and sell movies we already own. If you want to play games, buy a GBA or DS.

Steven Jones (not verified)
Tie Guy, you are all over the

Tie Guy, you are all over the place. This thread has nothing to do with whether the PSP is a legitimate gaming device or not. Of course it is.

Also, we are not debating the issue of whether you can spend alot of money watching the same movie over and over again in multiple venues or media. Of course you can.

To say that you are going to stick to one format is silly. I know everyone reading this has VHS tapes and DVDs in their house - there must have been a reason to buy both. And DVDs are not the end of the line either so a smart consumer would assume that they, too, will be replaced with something better. I am not suggesting that UMDs are better than DVDs, its just an alternative format that affords a different viewing experience, one that is arguably more portable and, for me, more convenient in many ways.

Tie Guy
Okay, the PSP is a legitimate

Okay, the PSP is a legitimate gaming device, but so is the N-Gage and Gizmondo. We'll see if the PSP amounts to the hype and price for it's form of entertainment. So far, it has not proven to me that it can provide a great portable gaming experience. I just feel that the emphasis on everything else has clouded its potential.

So let me guess, when DVD was released you went out and rebought your entire collection on DVD? I do have VHS tapes and DVDs, but I don't have many duplicates of both. Besides, VHS to DVD was an evolution of media, not a segway. When future HD formats are released, I'll likely buy one of them, but I'm not going to throw away every DVD I have to buy them on the latest format. I have re-purchased some tapes on DVD, but usually because I foudn the same movie cheap or the old tape was worn out.

You originally asked if the UMD is a legit media option, and I have no choice but to say yes. But, so was laserdisc and MiniDisc. This is really about the individuals perception of value. If you can afford to purchase a home and portable version of the same movie, and feel you get enough value for that additional 15 to 25 bucks, then the more power to you. I, personally, do not find value in UMD as a movie format. It's too limiting for my dollar, and I'll hedge a bet that UMD movies will slow to a crawl as the "newness" of the PSP wears.

Steven Jones (not verified)
HA!http://arstechnica.com

HA!

http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20050829-5252.html

For those of you too lazy to click thru the link, I provide this tidbit:

"Despite a less-than-promising start for Sony's UMD movie format, Americans have now purchased over half a million of the half-dollar-sized discs since its April release, according to one industry estimate. In comparison, the ubiquitous DVD took a year to reach the 500,000 mark back in 1997. There are no formal statistics to show what tops UMD sales charts, but going by Amazon's figures, Sin City leads all other releases by a comfortable margin."

Matt Whitlock
While I normally try to stay

While I normally try to stay out of these kinds of debates, I feel it's prudent to mention something.

During conversation about great movies to stress a home theater system, the movie Spiderman 2 was mentioned. Jones declared he didn't own the movie Spiderman 2. Remembering this thread, I mentioned that he did indeed, since he owns it on UMD. Based on the reaction, Jones did not forget he owned it on UMD, he just knows he does not own it on a format that can be played on anything but his PSP. However, I don't wan't to put words in his mouth. I'd rather him explain his little blunder.

So, it concluded that if you truly don't own a movie until you own it on DVD (or some other universally accepted and playable format), then UMD is not a viable (maybe "useful" is a better word) media option.

Steven Jones (not verified)
In a conversation about what

In a conversation about what DVDs to use to show off your home theater, I fail to see owning a UMD version of a movie or not is relevant. You are correct, I do own Spiderman 2 on UMD (free with the PSP I might add - would not have bought it separately) but that does not play into the home theater issue.

By your logic, the other movies that I happen to own VHS copies of or which live solely on my hard drive are not viable either. Is that right?

Tie Guy
HA! Thanks for siding with

HA! Thanks for siding with the Tie Guy Matt!

Jones,

You're diving down a path that makes no sense. VHS was once a viable media option, but was basically replaced by DVD as the (as Matt put it), "universally accepted and playable format". VHS died in 1997, so it's like asking if records are still a viable media option for music. You can't compare the 1980s and early 90s to 2005. Think about it, there really was no such thing as portable video when VHS was the big thing.

Although, you play right into my point. VHS was a viable format, but it ceased to be as it was eclipsed by something better AND accpeted in mass. Hence, its viability died when DVD took over. You had to rip them to your computer to regain some of its usefulness.

Since UMD can only be played on the PSP, it is therefore not a mass accepted format and something that connot be archived or transformed to regain its usefulness. In 3 or 4 years (maybe sooner, maybe later) the PSP will be discontinued. If Sony elects to not use UMD or some similar successor, the usefullness of all currently owned media will be gone. You did pay for Sin City on UMD, right? Is that a movie you own?

This conversation got going when we were discussing the viability of the format. I agreed with you that it is currently viable in the sense that you can go to the store and buy a movie, then play it back on a device (although a proprietary once). My main argument is that a DVD disc can be used for nearly every application, and can be played by nearly every kind of video device anywhere. A UMD is playable on only one portable device, yet they charge a higher retail for a UMD than a DVD.

Buying movies on UMD is...well...a waste of money. You may not agree now since the PSP is new and trendy, but you'll regret the extra 20 to 25 bucks you laid out per disc down the road. Unless of course, money is no object. In that case, enjoy!

Matt Whitlock
Tie Guy, I didn't exactly

Tie Guy,

I didn't exactly side with you. As I said, I usually prefer to stay out of these kinds of debates. However, I'm considering writing an article on this topic someday in the future, but I'd like to wait until the PSP is a little more aged before I approach this topic from an editorial standpoint.

Jones,

My logic is fine, the current viability of VHS (nearly 30 years old) is not in question, or even relevant. Otherwise, why not get really picky and pit the viability of the PSP vs. the Sega Game Gear (which, by the way, was released 14 years after VHS debuted)?

Steven Jones (not verified)
to quote Matt's garbled

to quote Matt's garbled English:

So, it concluded that if you truly don't own a movie until you own it on DVD (or some other universally accepted and playable format), then UMD is not a viable (maybe "useful" is a better word) media option.

Now, to me it sounds like you are arguing that based on the fact that I chose to own a movie on UMD and not DVD (despite the fact that UMD is quite "playable") that it is safe to proclaim the whole media format not viable. Am I missing your point? And, what is your definition of "accepted" - seems like most movie studios are backing the format.

And as for Tie Guy, I'm sorry I started to "dive down a path", whatever that means. Let's agree that DVDs are a much more popular format, with many advantages over UMD. Let's also agree that UMDs will likely never reach the same level of acceptance as DVDs (or VHS tapes, or minidiscs for that matter). That still doesn't mean that the format is not viable.

For fear of opening up another can of worms, I don't see how this is any different from Apple selling restricted AAC files from iTunes Music Store that only work on the iPod, or Nintendo selling DS games that only work on their new portable gaming device. Just because something is limited in its use (e.g. to a single device) doesn't mean it won't be accepted, right?

Bright Apollo
Time to crush Steve. Sorry

Time to crush Steve. Sorry Steve.

UMD is yet another attempt by Sony to ressurect the miniDisc fiasco with increased space. The only thing universal about UMD is it will be universally reviled by consumers.

1) UMD is not recordable or rewritable. VHS and even Beta has recordable medium. DVD clearly does, since it is a direct descendant of CDs. Having the ability to create or transfer content to the medium is key to its adoption. Sony dropped the ball on this. The world does not need another 8-track cassette.

2) Form factor. I'll get to the casing in a moment, but a new, non-standard form factor makes playback locked into Sony-only or Sony-licensed devices. If you needed a more obvious attempt at pushing forth a proprietary format in a desperate attempt to generate revenues, and my first point wasn't sufficient, then this is your ammunition. There's no need for this form factor whatsoever.

In fact, I'd have respected Sony if they made a miniDVD format and didn't embark on yet another attempt at reigning in the ubiquity of file organization on a disk.

3) The casing. Oh yes, it protects the disc from scratches and dings. So does careful handling and not using it for Ultimate Frisbee. You're an adult, take care of your toys. Now you have these additional moving parts to worry about, you can't drop it into any of the handy sleeves that 3rd party OEMs have created for looseleaf binders and Ikea now has to spend its limited R&D dollars on a special edition of the Yerkkil to house these things.

Satisfied, or are you thirsty for more?

-BrAp

Matt Whitlock
Okay, let's clear something

Okay, let's clear something up entirely: the definition of viable. According to Merriam Websters dictionary, viable can be defined (as it pertains to this conversation) as: having a reasonable chance of succeeding. That said, all of this is open for debate since there is no set definintion of what reasonable success is. Some may think UMD is/was successful, others not. And Jones, I made a typing error, you don't have to insult me by saying I speak with "garbled English".

Bright, you have made very good points about the UMD format, but after reading all of the posts in this thread, I believe the argument is whether or not UMD is a viable commercial movie format, not a storage medium in general. Proprietary or not makes little difference as a gaming format. And, if only used to release PSP games, I could care less about a writable format. In fact, my only complaint about UMD as a gaming format is the load times.

Jones, the AAC argument is also a good one, but it is another HUGE can of worms. I would be happy to share my thoughts on that subject, but let's do that in another thread. As far as your DS games only working on DS hardware, read the paragraph above. Proprietary formats do not matter in products that are proprietary by nature.

As my sole opinion, I do not beleive UMD has a reasonable chance for long-term success as a commercial movie format. Facts:

  • UMD movies are overpriced. They generally cost more than the same title on DVD
  • UMD movies are of inferior quality to DVD counterparts. - The resolution and sound are reduced for optimum playback on the PSP.
  • UMD movies contain less extras than DVDs - Less product for more money.
  • Limited playback options - As of now, you can only play back a UMD movie on a PSP.
  • Limited lifespan - The useful life of a UMD movie is dependent on how long Sony supports the format

UMD movies offer little value to the consumer. The next viable movie format will be the winner of the HD-DVD/Blu-Ray war, and until a clear winner is determined neither format offers value to the consumer. In fact, I'd rather not see this debate get hinged on the definition of viable (actually, you used the word legitimate in your first post. It was Tie Guy that used the term viable). I'd rather discuss whether or not UMD movies offer any value to consumers. And, whether or not Sony has made promises of a revolutionary portable gaming device, but instead has produced a mediocre movie player.

Steven Jones (not verified)
Ok,1) UMD is not recordable

Ok,

1) UMD is not recordable but then, no media primarily intended for gaming is. So is Sony really making a mistake here or just following convention? Also the PSP already supports another proprietary format for writing data - the Memory Stick Duo. Don't know who wins on that point.

2 & 3) The mini-DVD form factor is no more appealing than UMD to me and would be more fragile to carry around - I don't miss lugging around my CD collection, risking scratches and new, unplayable divets. I think the form factor is just a part of the whole proprietary argument.

I can't believe you're arguing against protecting $20+ delicate media!?!

Matt, all your points are valid. It is a case of less value for more money, which I would argue is an easy case to make for most new media formats that haven't even reached the 1 year mark.

So can we agree that if you are like me and enjoy paying more for a specialized movie format with less room for special features and that only works on a marginal playback device manufactured by a single company whose primary focus is promoting an entirely different experience (gaming), then the UMD is just your bag?

Matt Whitlock
Quoted from Steven Jones:..

Quoted from Steven Jones:
...if you are like me and enjoy paying more for a specialized movie format with less room for special features and that only works on a marginal playback device manufactured by a single company whose primary focus is promoting an entirely different experience (gaming)...

Doesn't that seem a little odd? You know, that you enjoy spending money on this? But, if that's your bag, the more power to you (though you really should seek some professional help).

We know where Jones stands on this, he's willing to spend more on a product that offers less value, but what about anyone else? I can't imagine that everyone feels this way?

Please weigh in with your opinion.

Bright Apollo
Steve, you're just being

Steve, you're just being difficult. Lemme loosen you up.

You say:
1) UMD is not recordable but then, no media primarily intended for gaming is. So is Sony really making a mistake here or just following convention? Also the PSP already supports another proprietary format for writing data - the Memory Stick Duo. Don't know who wins on that point.

I say:
Sony wants it both ways: use this format for games and, er, movies, and don't pay any attention to the fact that this format is just another 8-track in disguise. The convention for movie delivery isn't the 8-track model, that's for sure.

And my PC supports plenty of proprietary formats, but it doesn't make it right.

You say:
2 & 3) The mini-DVD form factor is no more appealing than UMD to me and would be more fragile to carry around - I don't miss lugging around my CD collection, risking scratches and new, unplayable divets. I think the form factor is just a part of the whole proprietary argument.

miniDVD is more appealing to more people because it doesn't require new equipment to use it, case closed. You can also buy skins for DVDs and CDs that protect it from scratching, which apparently is more of an issue for you than me.

-BrAp

 

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