Can anyone bring me into the 21st century regarding whether LCD Flat Screen TV's are just brilliant or actually pretty crap really?
I thought I should buy one and did, after a lot of comparisons in TV shops. I bought an LG 27LC2R which was a 27" LCD with speakers below - it looked great in the shop. I set it up and thought the picture was stunning as was the sound. I thought this was the best TV I had ever seen. Happy!
Until I began to notice that the picture 'swam' a bit sometimes - images became a bit liquid. Then it became obvious that every close up of the human face distorted with each movement - darker close ups of someone shaking their head were totally liquid, some parts remained steady while the rest of the face wobbled about! It became unwatchable because you were waiting for each wobble.
I tried the helplines, asked about connections & cables, discussed it with the store manager, took it back to the shop - all to no avail: no-one had heard of that problem before and the TV shop thought the picture was fine. I left it with them and got my cash back. Disappointed - no TV for me.
Now - this was not my imagination, so either (a) this was a duff make of TV, which I don't really think it was, or (b) perhaps ALL LCD TV's actually have this problem?? Liquid faces on dark close ups? Can anyone advise me whether this IS a common fault or whether I was just unlucky? And where do I go from here - plasma only or try again with LCD?
This is commonly called pixel lag or refresh rate. It's inherit with the technology. More expensive LCD's have better refresh rates but still suffer from it. It's not a problem with the set, rather it's an inherit attribute of all LCD TV's. Sorry.
You know, I thought that was likely to be the case - thanks for letting me know.
I now wonder why anybody would ever buy an LCD TV?
Don't do it folks, that liquid look is just horrible!
Why do they buy them? Because they're new and it's the hottest thing and they've got to have one because the neighbors have one and frankly, because the CRT based set is quickly going to be remembered along with Reel to reel tape decks, 8 tracks and Vinyl records.
sorry for the some what late reply to this thread, wasn't sure if i should have created a new post or not.
I have got exactly the same problem with face wobble and also have the same TV, the LG 27LC2R.
I have tried different cables, i bought i high quality scart cable and to be honest havent noticed much improvement on the wobble from my dvd player. S-video seems to be better although i havent tested it much with this. However i did plug my pc in with the vga cable and the picture was obviously a lot better and i didnt noice any wobble when i played a dvd through my pc. I was running my pc at 1280 * 768 resolultion.
So my question is does a higher res / definition picture cure the face/screen wobble effect. If so i would happily upgrade to a V+ box with hdmi for my tv and either get an upscaling dvd player or a ps3 or xbox for my dvds.
Does anyone get this problem on a HD signal?
To make it easier to understand what's happening, a quick overview of how an LCD panel works is needed.
First, despite the name, "Liquid Crystal Display", there is no liquid in a LCD panel. They are solid crytstals adhered to a mylar/plastic type panel sheet. A backlight, flourescent tubes, shines through them and depending on the crystals current position, that's what you'll see on the screen. The crystals are unable to completely block the passage of light, hence the reason true black levels aren't possible with a LCD. The other problem is for the image to change, the crystals must twist into a new position. The time it takes for that crystal to twist to it's new position is commonly referred to as the lag time. That is the reason for the wobbly faces when the images begin moving on the set. In extreme action scenes with high detail, the image can become very blurry.
While panel manufacturers are slowly designing the panels to reduce this lag time, it's nearly impossible to eliminate it completely due to the inherit nature of the technology itself.
Great explaination dude! I am going to use that one to explain to our other memebers with lag time questions.
Fair enough, however i have never noticed this wobble effect on my 17" LCD monitor which is also LG and around 3 years old now. Also when i plugged in my PC with a VGA cable the wobble effect was unnoticable. I was wondering if this is to do with the native reolution of the TV and the fact that my virgin media box and dvd player are displaying at a resolution lower than that of the native resolution of my tv and when i plugged my pc in it had a resolution of 1280 * 720.
Also when you say "The time it takes for that crystal to twist to it's new position ..." is this the same as response time? As i thought this only caused a noticable problem when slower than 16ms, my tv is rated at 8ms (admitidly it doesnt nessasarly mean that and could be slower on different colours as i understand). But again my monitor is rated at 16ms and doesnt get the wobble effect so is it all to do with resolutions?
Sad (but glad I'm not the only one) to see someone else with the same problem, and well explained by MOtvGuy. However my point remains: why buy something with inherent flawed technology? It's all very well to say LCD TV's are hot and everyone has to have one - but I personally am able to resist the flock mentality to spend £400 - £800 IF THE PICTURE'S RUBBISH. AND IT IS.
Since watching my wobbly faces, I have no confidence in these TV's at this point. If they are slowly improving the lag time problem, I will wait until they are further down the road. It might be worth knowing if some manufacturers are better than others. (I will not be buying another LG anything again.) And if Philips or Sony or Samsung are a bit better, the question is how much better, given that all LCD technology has the same problem to some extent?
Before buying that LG monstrosity, I did the homework on the specifications listed - pixels, contrast, brightness, etc. but I don't see any spec for lag-time measure. Can this be measured and would/do any manufacturers list this? That would help hugely.
In the meantime I just stick with a 7 year old 26" CRT TV, the size of a small house...... but with a perfect picture.
I'm still hoping this is a resolution issue, as i have read that a lot of the lag is due to the fact that the tv has to upscale the standard definition picture up to its native res which causes the lag. I have orded a V+ box which upscales normal tv itself. I will let you all know if this solves the problem. Fingers crossed.
Although MOtvGuy explained the LCD technology very nicely, you may want to check out the LCD buying guide HERE.
We just went through a training class with sony, who clams they have solved this issue for the most part, i think it is the fix-2 chassis. They claim they have eliminated motion blur, although i have not seen one yet. Just went through factory training on this chassis in December.
That's what I miss a lot. The factory training. I learned so much most of the time in those. I always enjoyed the Sony classes, the Sharp was ok, and the RCA with Bill Moore was pretty sweet also.
I know this is an old discussion but I figured I'd contribute for the sake of future browsers. It appears this string has taken on the tone of an anti-LCD rant. I recently purchased the Olevia 265TFHD 65" LCD TV. I always thoroughly research big ticket items before purchasing and I must confess, I was slightly apprehensive about the purchase. While researching this TV though, I discovered that Olevia has an agreement with LG to produce their LCD panels so the quality of the set was not a major concern. There seems to be a lot of opinion backed by obscure facts and figures out there but little substantive discussion. I can say now, after connecting and configuring the TV with my Onkyo upconvert DVD player via HDMI, that I am pleasantly surprised. The picture is bright and crisp with virtually no noticeable motion blur. To those who would accuse me of going LCD because of neighborhood envy or gotta-have-it syndrome I would caution against speaking in judgment without knowledge of individual motivations. My motivation to go LCD has two faces. First, I wanted the largest screen possible in a flat panel format for a more cinematic experience in my basement. Second, I chose the flat panel format over projection to conserve as much space as possible while getting a large, bright picture as resistant to ambient light washout as possible. LCD may not be the perfect large-screen format out there but it certainly stands well against other formats for size, clarity, brightness, energy consumption, and longevity.
Hope you bought an extended warranty for the beast as after the warranty you will have a hard time getting it repaired. Not much service info on those sets.
When it comes to LCD TV Don't BUY CHEAP !! LG , Olevia , Vizio, Samsung ,Apex , Haier/Sampo/Gateway , Sylvania/Funai/Symphonic , westingHouse are not TOP Quality TV'S Most of the LCD Panel they use are China Made & there refresh Rates (Lag time)are Very Slow and the Electrolytic Capacitors and Transistors they use are some of the Cheapest China made parts i have ever seen !
Just to update everyone on my original problem of the wobble effect i was getting on faces etc. I did get an HD virgin V+ box and connected it with HDMI, And it solved all the problems. Even normal def tv is much better as the box up converts everything to the tv native res. It's been running fine now i'm very happy with it.
So I would say, dont use a cheap HD tv without an up scaling digi, cable or dvd player. I'm sure more expenive Tvs can handle standard res signals better though.
The OFF Brand LCD TV JUST DON'T Last My shop if FULL of off brand LCD TV most are only 1 to 1.5 years old and have bad LCD panels , Bad Inverter boards , Bad power supply because of the Cheap CHINA made parts they use in these sets Sure they LOOK good when NEW But wait about 1.5 years then see what happiens Larry is correct a Extended Warranty is a MUST HAVE with Off Brand LCD TV's
I have fixed most of these tv set because of cheap or bad capcitors I found wih an ESR meter. All caps do not swell on the tops when bad. If they dis our job would be easy.
capacitors PC B's, LCD panels, Plasma panels made in China Do not last! Do Not expect them to last more then a year or so. IF BEST!! so if your going to buy a LG , Olivia , Vizio, Samsung ,Apex , Haier/Sampo/Gateway , Sylvania/Funai/Symphonic , Westinghouse TV or basically any off brand sold at ABC WAREHOUSE, Wall-MART, set do not forget the extended warranty! you will be sorry after a year or so if you do not! THEY DO Not STAND BEHIND THEM ALSO, YOU ARE SOL They say after a year or so TOO Bad! 1200 bucks to repair!!!! These are solely my own opinion. on what I have heard in the field! and have seen. Unless you have an extended warranty they the dealer could care less how much you have to spend after a year or so to repair your TV set.
Yes a lot have Bad caps My Sencore LC103 meter does get used a lot on those sets .
Most bad caps i find are in the power supply The inverter boards most are bad SMC mosfets most time easier to replace board then try to replace those tiny mosfets Some Extended warr. policies want Cover a BAD Panel & Some will only pay for labor NO PARTS so you should ask before you buy the warr. !
I here ya man! some folks say what kind of tech are you if you cannot troubleshoot these TV sets. as in the old days the guy used to come and replace a tube or a board and all was done and said!. I tell them it is not that easy nowadays!. These are digital boards that you cannot simply repair in the field! you have to replace it. And then they complain of the time it takes an he mount o the service call. I ask them have you sen the price of gas as well everything else these days. it is all related!
The Big one that gets me is like you said about the Panel replacement You tell the customer its going to cost $1200 to Fix there LCD TV and they Say "ARE YOU CRAZY" I only paid $699 for the Set Brand NEW ! LOL
Yes! Warranty is essential on any new technology. I made sure to get three years of warranty on the 265TFHD Olevia set so I'm covered if any major issues develop. I won't pretend to know the inner workings of supply chains for these LCD manufacturers, but every company will be interested in developing a positive image for their product if they expect future sales growth. It would be a stupid strategy indeed to use high-failure components in your top-line product. I'm not sure I buy this idea that Olevia(Syntax-Brillian), Vizio and other lower-priced brands are purposely using junk parts. In any case, I will be covered by warranty for at least the critical failure window on my set.
I'm afraid these "label" type TVs are made by many different companies who could care less about "positive Image" !
does your tv have 100hz motion plus if so turn it off my samsung series 6 40 inch did that and the motion plus was set to medium i turned it off and that problem stoped
Hi folks, Wow! As a technician who qualified on the latest (at the time) CRT television and VHS equipment in the U.K. in 1994, I am so glad I am out of the trade now and looking to do something else with my life other than battle to repair today's unfixables and with equally hateful customers !!! I am only 33 but since A/V technology has moved-on at such a pace, all my knowledge is out of date, although I could probably fault find those horrible-sounding Chinese SWPS and replace those irrepairable digital processing boards. I agree with everything I've heard about the poor quality of LCD images after recently trawling through electrical stores looking for a replacement television where I was shocked and disappointed by the poor quality of the LCD images I saw. True, they have perfect geometry and (of course) convergence - but the luma resolution is lost and the chroma content too "flat" - obviously the result of digital processing etc. Shame so many technicians and suppliers have gone to the wall through the public's rush to buy LCD/Plasma when traditional CRT TVs may offer better images. Now training to do something completely different :-).
Bought a Samsung lcd tv it has lasted 18 months. Starting to ghost. writing is being left on the screen faintly.
Any answers??
If we don't buy LCD tv's what do we buy????
Hi guys,
Interesting forum. I need some help from you. My Samsung 2032MW LCD TV/monitor was working Ok until few days ago. Suddenly I got the image not in the middel of the screen but to the right side. it is really anoying to watch something there. Basically, What I get is a black vertical column ( 3-4 cms ) at the left side of the screen and then the rest of the image int the righ side, it is not complete. In the begining I was thinking it was a setup issue, because a laptop is plugged to one of the port. Doublechecked cabling and changed display settings without success. Disconnected laptop , cabling from TV/monitor and not changes. Don't matter, image are the same using device as tv or monitor. Unplugged all cabling , inclisive power and left TV/monitor in rust half day. Nothing. In other monitor you could always press a knop Sync for synchronitation and problem was resolved. With this one I couldn't find something similar.
Is there anyone who could give me some advise in this matter? I would really appreciate it.
thx in advance,
Rey
i have a goodmans 32 lcd and the red light stays on we have checked the power supply and it is all working but i have noticed a break in the 5 volt ribbon that connects to the power supply would this stop the tv from going red to green
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