How HD-DVD Could Win the Format War

I've been following the format war between HD-DVD and Blu-Ray Disc since the days when each was on the drawing board. For the record, I'm not choosing sides in this debate, nor am I recommending that anyone buy into either option. Each format brings HD quality movies and advanced playback features to the table. In my mind, that makes them both good. However, mass adoption of either simply won't happen until one of two things occurs:

  1. One camp drops out of the race.
  2. The stalemate draws on long enough that the ability to play back both formats is included in every playback device. Simply put; a tie. While a handful of hardware makers not entrenched in one camp or another have done this (namely LGs Super Blu players... "Super" meaning "super expensive"), the Toshiba's and Sony's of the world don't seem likely to build in support for their rivals even though it could finally advance adoption.

So that leaves the folks these products are built for, me and you, watching our favorite prime time shows in HD, but enjoying our favorite summer blockbusters in the "glory" that is up-converted standard definition. I'm tired of DVD. I WANT the better picture and advanced features each HD format brings to the table, but I NEED resolution that I won't be buying into the next Betamax.

If I had to back a format, I'd pick the one that's got the best chance to win in the short term (as I've said, I'm tired of waiting). To me, it looks like HD-DVD has a better chance nailing a short-term victory, but not unless the HD-DVD camp starts utilizing some of the advantages that have been on their side from the beginning.

How HD-DVD Could Win the Format War

For the record (again) I'm not picking sides. I (like most people) really don't care which format becomes the next-gen standard, as long as there is ONE type of disc that works in my PC, car, and standalone player. If the HD-DVD folks are listening, here's 5 things you can do to knock out Blu-Ray for good so we can all finally start enjoying movies on HD:

1. Take advantage of HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc Backwards Compatibility

I want a single HD format, but I'm even more selfish than that. I've got a million DVD players, and I kind of want to buy one disc that plays in everything. HD-DVD provides that! The ability to create HD-DVD+DVD Combo Discs is a huge advantage HD-DVD has for a short-term win. Unfortunately, the backwards compatibility goodness HD-DVD provides isn't being utilized.

Studios exclusive to HD-DVD should be required to release films in HD-DVD+DVD Combo Discs ONLY. Forget the standard DVD release and provide one SKU for retailers to stock. Even if we're watching it on our regular DVD player we HAVE the HD-DVD version, too. And the more HD-DVD discs we acquire, the more we'll want to buy a HD-DVD player.

PLUS, with only one SKU, retailers that have sided up on the Blu-Ray exclusive bandwagon have no choice but to stock the HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc. It's that, or not carry the movie at all and lose sales.

For the consumers, HD-DVD+DVD Combo Discs are a bigger win. I have the flexibility to enjoy the film in HD on my home system, but also bring the same disc along in the car to play for the kids on the cheap-o portable DVD player. It's more convenient! It's the best of both worlds! We CAN have our cake and eat it, too!

2. Take Advantage of the Cost Savings While it Lasts

Why, oh why, is the same movie twice as expensive on HD-DVD than it is on regular DVD? One of the advantages HD-DVD claimed was that existing DVD productions lines can be cheaply converted to produce HD-DVD... so that can't be it. Don't studios master their work in HD, then convert it to standard def for DVD already? If so, then that can't be it either. Why the HUGE price premium?

Okay, it's business and you're there to make money. I get it. However, the sheer desire to roll in consumer's dough is a bit of a turn off for some, and is giving people enough reason to ignore the benefits these next-gen formats provide.

"It's another money grab by the big companies," says Daniel Malen, self-proclaimed TV addict and founder of the popular TV blog theTVaddict.com. "Sony, Toshiba and whomever else wants to further gouge consumers, get us to throw away our perfectly good DVD players and the thousands I've spent on TV on DVD... only to go out and buy the exact same stuff on the new High Def Version."

Daniel is not the only one who feels this way. The battle between companies has consumers caught in the crossfire, and while choice is typically a good thing for shoppers, this war is being waged with the hard earned cash of the typical consumer on the line.

HD-DVD has the opportunity to strike a one-two punch in favor of the we consumers, but the opportunity to be the price hero is diminishing daily. My advice: sell everything as a HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc and sell it for the SAME price you would for regular DVD. Yes, you won't make as much money, but forego the short-term nickel and diming and hold out for the cash-cow of becoming the next-gen standard. You'll be rolling in it by then and still giving consumers a fair deal.

I (a cheapskate consumer) love the fact that HD-DVD players are relatively affordable. $200-$400 for a fully functional HD-DVD player isn't the problem. The fact of the matter is that DVD looks pretty darn good on an HDTV, and I can't justify the additional ten to fifteen bucks for the HD version, particularly if that disc doesn't work in every player I have.

Blu-Ray is getting cheaper. The what was once ungodly expensive Playstation 3 is getting more attractive with lower priced options. Standalone Blu-Ray players are not "wallet-crushing" anymore. However, there's still a ways for them to go to hit the ultra-low hardware prices of HD-DVD, and the opportunity to win the war on price is fading.

3. Get Hardware Prices Even Lower, and Enough with the 1080i Only Players

As I mentioned above, HD-DVD is relatively affordable, but it could be better. I don't expect to see $29 cheap-o HD-DVD players anytime soon, but it's high time we saw some players at the $99 range that aren't Black Friday limited closeout specials. And with Sony's latest $399 PS3 SKU, it's high time we saw that XBOX 360 HD-DVD add-on get a big price drop.

Then there's the "on paper perspective." I know both formats are capable of offering razor sharp 1080p images, but only some HD-DVD models offer that level of output. To most, 1080i and 1080p won't look any different, but it sure does make a difference on paper. Let's see 1080i go away for good and get a few $99 to $199 standalone 1080p HD-DVD players out there (you listening Toshiba?). You may not make money in the short term, but think of how much money you'll make if Blu-Ray becomes the next standard? I'll help you visualize: $0

4. Forget Crazy DRM

People want to rip a movie to their hard drive, transcode it, and load it onto their iPod or other portable player. From my research, Blu-Ray's DRM is stricter than HD-DVD, but let's make it so folks can easily move this glorious content around from device to device without hacks, headaches, or illegal software.

Don't want to allow folks to encode a movie in HD? Fine, make it easy for folks to encode a standard def version for portable digital devices, reserving HD only playback from the disc itself. You know what!? If it's all HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc, there's already a standard def version ready to go.

5. Take a dominant position in the PC market.

Vista plays nice with HD-DVD, now let's just get some drives out there that are affordable. Let's also start to see some dual and triple layer writable HD-DVD discs for sale.

The maximum storage space differences between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD are nil if 51GB triple layer HD-DVDs truly are in the pipeline. However, I'm more interested in seeing super-affordable 15GB and 30GB discs on my retailer's shelf in the short term. A single 25GB BD-R disc (at the time this was written) couldn't be found for less than $10 (a piece). However, I couldn't find a writable HD-DVD disc at all! Let's see some 10 packs of blank HD-DVD-Rs for a few bucks per disc and then we're talking.

HD For Everyone... Eventually

Movies in HD quality are something that most people want, but until this "VHS vs. Betamax - Round 2" is over, most consumers will sit comfortable with their regular DVD players. Let's face it, there's so little to differentiate the two formats, and so much competition from the current standard that getting folks to buy in will take lower prices and more incentive than ever. With HD-DVD's so far unplayed trump cards like backwards compatibility and lower priced hardware, they're in the best position to end the stalemate quickly. HD-DVD, can we finally see all your cards?

What do you think HD-DVD could do to win the war? Think Blu-Ray is the faster track to a single standard? Think both formats could co-exist peacefully? Post your thoughts below.

Comments

It is sounding like the old beta to VHS war. I for the longest time stuck with the beta because the picture simply looked better. I have seen no difference between these two rival formats or any better features one has over the other unless I am missing something here. I have seen in some movie releases though that are coming out, a regular DVD as well as a copy of the disc in HD format. There are not many that are doing this as of yet, but I am wondering if the distributors will simply include both the Blu-Ray as well as the HD format in movies someday. If I were the manufacturers of these products, I would burn a little midnight oil and decide once and for all as I see in my lifetime the doom of DVDs as the flash memory is looking pretty well these days with the amount of memory they can hold. I see that one day movies will come of a memory flash card or a flash stick.  Heck, look at the availability now to download movies. Maybe I am looking to far ahead?

I don't know were you get your facts but they are FUD.Your sort of Pro HD-DVD spinning makes it more difficult for consumers.

If you really want to help you readers learn the differences between HD-DVD and Blu-ray clink on link below.

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

Sling,

You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol.  The hypocrisy!  You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray. 

Memorex said: Sling, You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol.  The hypocrisy!  You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray. 

A neutral site hmm is there such a site....No

You want true Blu-ray facts go to link I posted and learn them with NO FUD .

sling said:

Memorex said: Sling, You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol. The hypocrisy! You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray.

A neutral site hmm is there such a site....No You want true Blu-ray facts go to link I posted and learn them with NO FUD .

No, going to a site dedicated to Blu-ray is not getting all the facts. You just said it yourself that there are no neutral sites. So, since you support Blu-ray you direct everyone to a bias site.

Hopefully the educated people who read these replies will see through your own bias and look for the real facts with some dedicated research and not one sided propaganda.

Memorex said:

sling said:
Memorex said: Sling, You say that the author of the Blog is Pro HD DVD and bias, yet you give a link to Bluray.com about the differences between HD DVD and Blu-ray...lol. The hypocrisy! You could have at least given a neutral site, but then again you are bias toward Blu-ray.

A neutral site hmm is there such a site....No You want true Blu-ray facts go to link I posted and learn them with NO FUD .

No, going to a site dedicated to Blu-ray is not getting all the facts. You just said it yourself that there are no neutral sites. So, since you support Blu-ray you direct everyone to a bias site. Hopefully the educated people who read these replies will see through your own bias and look for the real facts with some dedicated research and not one sided propaganda.

Mem, you asked me why I didn't post link to neutral site....you know darn well there are none to be had so nice try.If you want to learn about Blu-ray and HD-DVD facts ,pro's and con's  give  blu-ray.com a view.

Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.  

Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    

Memorex said: Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.   Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    

Memorex likes to spread FUD to...Very sad Very sad.

sling said:

Memorex said: Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.   Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    

Memorex likes to spread FUD to...Very sad Very sad.

Wow, I'm sorry to say but your view and post is very sad, very sad indeed. 

Memorex said:

sling said:
Memorex said: Sling, there are some neutral sites out there.  Highdefdigest.com is a neutral site.  There are other places that are better to get the real facts on both formats.  Bluray.com doesn't give all the facts, they skew the facts to make Blu-ray look better.   Again,  I hope the readers out there can see through the bias of both sides and make an informed decision and that cannot be done by getting all your information from Blu-ray.com...sorry to tell you Sling.    

Memorex likes to spread FUD to...Very sad Very sad.

Wow, I'm sorry to say but your view and post is very sad, very sad indeed. 

Your misinformation about blu-ray.com says it all...You my friend take the cake for sad.

Fellas, Lets play nice now.  There are all sorts of sites out there to compare Blu-ray and HD-DVD. But I would have to agree, a site that talks only about Blu-ray is not going to give all the facts. They will give the good about their product, not the bad. Right now, can you really tell the picture quality difference? If someone hid the two players and had the same TV set, and played one beside the other, could you pick out the HD vs the Blu-ray?

Larry Dillon said: Fellas, Lets play nice now.  There are all sorts of sites out there to compare Blu-ray and HD-DVD. But I would have to agree, a site that talks only about Blu-ray is not going to give all the facts. They will give the good about their product, not the bad. Right now, can you really tell the picture quality difference? If someone hid the two players and had the same TV set, and played on beside the other, could you pick out the HD vs the Blu-ray?

Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.  

I can tell you from experience that both formats offer great picture quality.  It would be hard to choose one over the other as the winner, they are both very similar.

Like you said, I can bet that if you hid both players and played a movie like a Paramount title (which used different encodes for each format) that you would be hard pressed to see a difference or pick which is which.  

Larry Dillon said: Fellas, Lets play nice now.  There are all sorts of sites out there to compare Blu-ray and HD-DVD. But I would have to agree, a site that talks only about Blu-ray is not going to give all the facts. They will give the good about their product, not the bad. Right now, can you really tell the picture quality difference? If someone hid the two players and had the same TV set, and played on beside the other, could you pick out the HD vs the Blu-ray?

That's why I recommend Blu-ray.com .It does support BR of course but gives truth, good and bad about both formats.The mods do a fantastic job making sure misinformation is not spread around confusing consumers.

 I will leave it at that.

Phil C                                               

Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.    

Thanks Mem for your post above.

You feel the Article to be Pro HD-DVD and think I was trying to push "the opposite viewpoint" which would be Pro blu-ray lol

I posted link to Blu-ray.com that supports blu-ray but gives facts,Good and bad about both formats.You found that to be a threat then dropped Fud

Mem it was good chatting with you.

Phil C

Mem, I do see your point. Lets see what the author of this article has to say about this. And he knows what he is talking about. Not that I am saying you don't, not by all means.

sling said:

Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.    

Thanks Mem for your post above. You feel the Article to be Pro HD-DVD and think I was trying to push "the opposite viewpoint" which would be Pro blu-ray lol I posted link to Blu-ray.com that supports blu-ray but gives facts,Good and bad about both formats.You found that to be a threat then dropped Fud Mem it was good chatting with you. Phil C

Forgive me mods for responding to this post, but I have to.  

I've been to bluray.com and the facts you say they give are misleading.  They purposely leave out information on the HD DVD side and try to present Blu-ray in the best possible light. 

I will leave it at that, I think everyone reading knows where your coming from Sling...so sorry to the Mods for continuing the bickering, I will stop now.  

If you have a point to make, please, continue, just play nice. No bashing is necessary to get your point across. Techlore.com is an easy going community that hopes the visitors and or members have the ability to communicate between each other and give each others information and share ideas. If anyone can find a neutral site, by all means lets see it and compare together. As Matt stated in his article, it will come down to the most popular equipment or until someone drops out. The cost of these buggers are way out of reach for most Home video enthusiast I think, but this will change when one brand becomes more popular I think.

Memorex said:

Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.     

  

 Sling is playing nice.

Memorex the artical is Pro Fud for HD-DVD and you support it as seen in your post above.You tried to hide your support for HD-DVD while you insulted link I provied that gives BR and HD-DVD facts Pro's and con's.

Phil C

sling said:

Memorex said:
Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.     

  

 Sling is playing nice. Memorex the artical is Pro Fud for HD-DVD and you support it as seen in your post above.You tried to hide your support for HD-DVD while you insulted link I provied that gives BR and HD-DVD facts Pro's and con's. Phil C

Sling, so now I'm pro HD DVD because I think bluray.com is bias and doesn't present all the facts? That's a bit absurd I think.  I mean, a site that is named after a format is going to be bias that is why I don't suggest someone going there for a fair and neutral look at both formats. 

Now, I own both formats, they both have their pros and cons.  That is why I suggest anyone who is interested in High Def to go to a neutral site such as highdefdigest, or do a search on the merits of both formats.  But with any research, remember to take some things with a grain of salt as there are many people who like to spread..."FUD."  

I think someone who buys into either format is going to enjoy it as both offer pristine picture and audio quality.  My only problem with Blu-ray is not having a full specification out of the gate, this profile mess just causes confusion among consumers and is not consumer friendly at all.  That is one of the good things about HD DVD, they had a complete product from the beginning.  

Memorex said:

sling said:
Memorex said:
Memorex said:  Sorry about the banter.  I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint.     

  

 Sling is playing nice. Memorex the artical is Pro Fud for HD-DVD and you support it as seen in your post above.You tried to hide your support for HD-DVD while you insulted link I provied that gives BR and HD-DVD facts Pro's and con's. Phil C

Sling, so now I'm pro HD DVD because I think bluray.com is bias and doesn't present all the facts? That's a bit absurd I think.  I mean, a site that is named after a format is going to be bias that is why I don't suggest someone going there for a fair and neutral look at both formats.  Now, I own both formats, they both have their pros and cons.  That is why I suggest anyone who is interested in High Def to go to a neutral site such as highdefdigest, or do a search on the merits of both formats.  But with any research, remember to take some things with a grain of salt as there are many people who like to spread..."FUD."   I think someone who buys into either format is going to enjoy it as both offer pristine picture and audio quality.  My only problem with Blu-ray is not having a full specification out of the gate, this profile mess just causes confusion among consumers and is not consumer friendly at all.  That is one of the good things about HD DVD, they had a complete product from the beginning.  

Memorex said:   I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint...end quote

I said the article is Fud which you disagree with.Then I post link to site that has the name"Blu-ray" in it so you you tell onlookers the wont get facts from link....or as you say above "the opposite viewpoint" hmm....lets leave it at that.

Great places to get facts,

http://www.highdefdigest.com/

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

 Enjoy

Phil C

That's the point here! Different viewpoints, different opinions.  I will now step in between you two and ask, why don't each of you write a small review on what you believe or like about each format and post it here or submit to the editor as an article? Or maybe start a blog. We have loads of great blogs here started from discussions from these threads. Your blog would be a great focal point to get your opinion out there as well as getting responses from many of our members.

sling said:

 

Memorex said:   I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint...end quote I said the article is Fud which you disagree with.Then I post link to site that has the name"Blu-ray" in it so you you tell onlookers the wont get facts from link....or as you say above "the opposite viewpoint" hmm....lets leave it at that. Great places to get facts, http://www.highdefdigest.com/ http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24  Enjoy Phil C

No, you misunderstood me.  I never said I disagreed with you calling the article FUD.  What I disagreed with was you saying the article is FUD and then giving a site that is the opposite of what this article was and saying it is fair and balanced.  You basically just gave a link to the opposite viewpoint which would just be FUD from the opposite side.  Hopefully I'm making myself clear here.  

Now I don't agree with everything in the article, there were some good points made and some that I don't necessarily agree with.  Either way, Sling, what I'm trying to say is that you aren't going to get all the facts from any place that is bias to one format or the other.  Bluray.com is exactly that, a site about Blu-ray.  They aren't going to give all the facts and will be bias toward Blu-ray since that is what that site is all about.  

So, all in all, this is why I suggest a neutral site for people to see the pros or cons of both formats.   

Larry Dillon said: That's the point here! Different viewpoints, different opinions.  I will now step in between you two and ask, why don't each of you write a small review on what you believe or like about each format and post it here or submit to the editor as an article? Or maybe start a blog. We have loads of great blogs here started from discussions from these threads. Your blog would be a great focal point to get your opinion out there as well as getting responses from many of our members.

That sounds like a good idea.  I will have to think about that.  Thank you for the suggestion.  It could be a good way to try and bring a neutral viewpoint of both formats and what each offers.  

Ok Memorex, instead of trying to answer and arguing your post PROVE them, That is the best way as long as you do reference or cite where you got the info from. Thanks for listening.

Memorex said:

sling said:

Memorex said:   I just get annoyed when someone says something is "FUD" and then directs everyone to a site that will just give the opposite viewpoint...end quote I said the article is Fud which you disagree with.Then I post link to site that has the name"Blu-ray" in it so you you tell onlookers the wont get facts from link....or as you say above "the opposite viewpoint" hmm....lets leave it at that. Great places to get facts, http://www.highdefdigest.com/ http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24  Enjoy Phil C

No, you misunderstood me.  I never said I disagreed with you calling the article FUD.  What I disagreed with was you saying the article is FUD and then giving a site that is the opposite of what this article was and saying it is fair and balanced.  You basically just gave a link to the opposite viewpoint which would just be FUD from the opposite side.  Hopefully I'm making myself clear here.   Now I don't agree with everything in the article, there were some good points made and some that I don't necessarily agree with.  Either way, Sling, what I'm trying to say is that you aren't going to get all the facts from any place that is bias to one format or the other.  Bluray.com is exactly that, a site about Blu-ray.  They aren't going to give all the facts and will be bias toward Blu-ray since that is what that site is all about.   So, all in all, this is why I suggest a neutral site for people to see the pros or cons of both formats.   

My point is, Blu-ray.com doesn't produce or allow false information/FUD fly in there forums.If I went in there and said "HD-DVD only has 10 gigs of disk space buy Blu-ray"which would be FUD Blu-ray.com members would be jumping all over my post giving me HD-DVD facts....This is also rains true for Blu-ray as well.Blu-ray.com supports  truth about both formats not allowing misinformation to be the decision  maker for it's members unlike 99.9 sites currently available. The so called neutral sites have great info as well but throw FUD as I'm sure you've seen.

The article has to much false information in it and onlookers should know.

Great info to clear the air can be found at,

http://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=24

http://www.highdefdigest.com/

Larry Dillon said: That's the point here! Different viewpoints, different opinions.  I will now step in between you two and ask, why don't each of you write a small review on what you believe or like about each format and post it here or submit to the editor as an article? Or maybe start a blog. We have loads of great blogs here started from discussions from these threads. Your blog would be a great focal point to get your opinion out there as well as getting responses from many of our members.

Dillon I want to thank you for allowing us to have are little debate.The writing of small reviews would be outstanding...No FUD allowed!!!!

Phil C

sling said:  The article has to much false information in it and onlookers should know.

So what I love about posters like you are that you're quick to say, "This has too much false information in it, but never really get into what is false about it. I'll say to you what I say to all of them. Prove me wrong, and I'd be happy to admit it.

sling said: Your sort of Pro HD-DVD spinning makes it more difficult for consumers.

I'm not sure you actually read anything beyond the title of the article, which would be enough to send any Blu-Ray fanboy into posting rage. In fact, I think I was fairly critical of the HD-DVD camp by pointing out several flaws in their current game plan. Nowhere did I say "HD-DVD Will Win" or "HD-DVD is Better" or "Go Buy HD-DVD."

I have no real bias toward either format. I just want to see it end as fast as possible, and I do believe HD-DVD could end the format war faster if they actually took advantage of the things that makes HD-DVD more compelling for the consumer, like the HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc and more affordable hardware. Once Blu-Ray hardware and software are equal price to HD-DVD in the marketplace, I fear the war will get a lot messier and a lot more people are going to get hosed.

As stated in the text above (first paragraph), I really wouldn't recommend either format at this time. It's not a safe buy either way, and I think consumers should hold on to their hard earned cash until its over.

Matt Whitlock said:

sling said:  The article has to much false information in it and onlookers should know.

So what I love about posters like you are that you're quick to say, "This has too much false information in it, but never really get into what is false about it. I'll say to you what I say to all of them. Prove me wrong, and I'd be happy to admit it.

sling said: Your sort of Pro HD-DVD spinning makes it more difficult for consumers.

I'm not sure you actually read anything beyond the title of the article, which would be enough to send any Blu-Ray fanboy into posting rage. In fact, I think I was fairly critical of the HD-DVD camp by pointing out several flaws in their current game plan. Nowhere did I say "HD-DVD Will Win" or "HD-DVD is Better" or "Go Buy HD-DVD." I have no real bias toward either format. I just want to see it end as fast as possible, and I do believe HD-DVD could end the format war faster if they actually took advantage of the things that makes HD-DVD more compelling for the consumer, like the HD-DVD+DVD Combo Disc and more affordable hardware. Once Blu-Ray hardware and software are equal price to HD-DVD in the marketplace, I fear the war will get a lot messier and a lot more people are going to get hosed. As stated in the text above (first paragraph), I really wouldn't recommend either format at this time. It's not a safe buy either way, and I think consumers should hold on to their hard earned cash until its over.

Matt it's good to see you have joined us.....just a little late.Im sure it's been a very entertaining conversion to watch between myself and Mem for the last few hours .We will play another day Cool...i have your article book marked so no worries.

sling said: Matt it's good to see you have joined us.....just a little late.Im sure it's been a very entertaining conversion to watch between myself and Mem for the last few hours .We will play another day Cool...i have your article book marked so no worries.

We don't have to "play" and I'm not trying to poke you into a forum bicker-fest.

If you want to write your own piece on how Blu-Ray can win the format war, I'd be happy to publish it in my blog section or as an article here on TechLore (you'll get full credit either way)... I'd even be willing to help you write and polish it. We do have certain editorial requirements, but if you're fair and support your opinions (i.e. no blatant fanboy ramblings) then you'll have no problem. Such a piece would be welcome here on the site. 

Matt Whitlock said:

sling said: Matt it's good to see you have joined us.....just a little late.Im sure it's been a very entertaining conversion to watch between myself and Mem for the last few hours .We will play another day Cool...i have your article book marked so no worries.

We don't have to "play" and I'm not trying to poke you into a forum bicker-fest. If you want to write your own piece on how Blu-Ray can win the format war, I'd be happy to publish it in my blog section or as an article here on TechLore (you'll get full credit either way)... I'd even be willing to help you write and polish it. We do have certain editorial requirements, but if you're fair and support your opinions (i.e. no blatant fanboy ramblings) then you'll have no problem. Such a piece would be welcome here on the site. 

No bicker-fest here Matt.I thank you for the opportunity to share.

I'm just a little tired seeing it's 1AM on the east coast....long day at work.I don't find all of your info to be off base yet some very important peaces of this format puzzle are missing that ever  consumer in the market for HD should know. I'll submit my take on the format war this weekend time permitting.

Phil C

I agree with matt to the point that whatever format wins,  I am not buying an hd dvd player until all the fighting is done. And a standard come out of it. And the movies are the same price in hd or standard def. I have been around this stuff too long to be sucked into bleeding edge technology.

I've been following the format wars for a little bit now that I've gotten myself an HDTV. I came to this site while searching for any indication as to which, if any, format may have gained an advantage as the holiday season begins.

I have to say, I'm surprised by posters like Sling, who accuse the writer of false information. As far as I can tell, Matt made absolutely no claims about the superiority of either format. What he did do is say that HD DVD has the best chance of winning, and supported that assertion by outlining several marketing strategies that, were the HD DVD folks to implement them, could very well push HD DVD over the top. 

I tend to agree with Matt that one of the strongest plays HD DVD could make right now would be to release all new titles in dual format DVD/HD DVD: it would address the shelf-space problem at rental stores, would allow greater utility of the disc (HD at home, SD while on the road), and would also develop format loyalty among those who want to wait to buy an HD player, but want to have a copy of the movie now (the dual format means they can have the DVD, and then when they buy an HD DVD player later, they won't have to buy a duplicate library in HD).

So... out of curiosity, how exactly is Matt relying on false information? 

Matt, & Redsquareblack;

I think Matt did a bang up job for an article but I think he is missing some data in each section.   I would like to supply some of this data and review each point.  Some of the data is obvious and I am not sure why he thinks this way maybe if Matt could give us some better references for these that would help.  Here is my breakdown per each section.

1. - 2.) HD-DVD Combo disk this is a good point if they could no longer release DVD's but instead just the combo disks then yes it would be an advantage.  The problem here is really item 2 on your list the cost of the HD-DVD combo disk but your quoting a blog for a source on how content is store.  Content is stored in the highest quality of the current technology cycle.  What does this mean?  It means simply that movies and TV-Shows alike are only just now being stored in HD.  That means any older title still has to be converted to HD giving you a cost.  Not to mention that both formats are all about new features these features have R&D and implementation costs.  Every studio wants to be able to push more content and hold your eyes longer meaning audience research needs to be done.  If you notice we see very little difference in the features of DVD/HD-DVD/Blu-Ray but that's not because the technology that's because the cost to implementing these features.  

Yes originally HD-DVD camp was pushing hard that you could change over existing DVD facilities to HD-DVD at a much lower cost.  You should contact the HD-DVD Consortium and find out how many existing facilities have been changed over? I can't say for positive but I think that number is less than 5 and possibly 0.  Now existing facilities that have added HD-DVD abilities as in built new production plants within existing facilities is much higher, but nobody converted over meaning the cost between the two formats is about the same. 

3.) I am with you on the player point enough with the 1080i crap let’s get some real players down in cost.  I would actually add to this point saying they need to get more manufactures behind the product.  If you look on Amazon or any other major online retailer you see only Toshiba, Microsoft, and this new maker Venturer. There are a couple of dual format players in the market as well but they are really over priced for the general public.  I think with Toshiba (owning the patent) they might want to incentives the market by not being the lowest maker of player but instead help other companies reach that goal. 

4.) Remove DRM: Not going to happen they have to pay the $300 million dollar cost of the movie production they want to make sure nobody is ripping them off.  DRM is here to stay and no way will your model ever get put in place.  The problem here is that by making it harder you limit your exposure to the people who want to take the time to find the cracks.  By not implementing DRM products you encourage the miss use mentality and will eventually lead to serious revenue loss.

5.) The PC market position is held currently by Blu-Ray only because you have more options.  If you look back at my note on point 3 they just don’t have the hardware backers to make this happen right now.  Getting these backers is going to be a tuff trick but certainly it is still possible.

 I think HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be around for a while but neither will win the war.  Unless the studios select HD-DVD or Blu-Ray for us the battle is going to go on for a while.  Smart money might be on Internet Delivery as more and more studios push their content online. 

References most of this data can be pulled from general retailers as well as several news outlets.

www.amazon.com; www.macworld.com/news/2005/03/18/bluray/index.php; www.thelookandsoundofperfect.com; www.mwave.com; www.newegg.com; www.ibtimes.com/articles/20071130/blu-ray-hd-dvd-hidef.htm

 

Hi Big James!

Great post! You obviously went into more of the finer details than I did in the original post. However based on your points, I should clarify a bit more on certain things:

It means simply that movies and TV-Shows alike are only just now being stored in HD. That means any older title still has to be converted to HD giving you a cost.

Absolutely correct, however converting older titles not ready for HD primetime doesn't really benefit everyone in the short term. No doubt many people already own many of the favorites on DVD, and I doubt (again in the short term) that anyone would start replacing their DVD collections for HD versions any time soon... if ever for many. My thoughts about Combo Disc are focused around new releases, considering those are already getting HD treatments and features, and would make the biggest impact on sales.

Yes originally HD-DVD camp was pushing hard that you could change over existing DVD facilities to HD-DVD at a much lower cost. You should contact the HD-DVD Consortium and find out how many existing facilities have been changed over? I can't say for positive but I think that number is less than 5 and possibly 0. Now existing facilities that have added HD-DVD abilities as in built new production plants within existing facilities is much higher, but nobody converted over meaning the cost between the two formats is about the same.

I did try to do a little digging, but couldn't get a straight answer from any of my contacts. I'll continue to make a few calls and see if I can get more info on the number of facilities that have actually converted. However, to stay in line with the first point (if new releases go to Combo Disc), then the ability to convert existing lines cheaply (as the DVD Forums says is true), then this certainly would play to HD-DVDs favor.

I would actually add to this point saying they need to get more manufactures behind the product.

Well said. Additional support and lower licensing fees to partners would go a long way to encourage adoption.

Remove DRM: Not going to happen they have to pay the $300 million dollar cost of the movie production they want to make sure nobody is ripping them off. DRM is here to stay and no way will your model ever get put in place.

Well, I wasn't trying to be quite that clear cut. Removing DRM isn't going to happen, but I think DRM could be less restrictive and more consumer friendly. I shouldn't be able to share a movie with 10,000 people, but I should be able to rip a digital version on my PC and laptop to use on my mobile devices. There's a balance there, and I think HD-DVD is in an better position to fine tune DRM to make everyone happy.

The PC market position is held currently by Blu-Ray only because you have more options. If you look back at my note on point 3 they just don’t have the hardware backers to make this happen right now. Getting these backers is going to be a tuff trick but certainly it is still possible.

I'd like to double check the stats there, since Toshiba has been building HD-DVD drives into notebooks for quite some time (albeit anything with an HD-DVD or Blu-Ray drive is a lot more money at retail). I can't say for sure which format really has the higher installed base of drives, though I am inclined to agree with you that Blu-Ray holds the advantage there. More backers is a big thing, but working with partners to get affordable blank media out there is the other missing element. If I could get 15 and 30 gig blanks for a reasonable price, I'd have much more incentive to make the leap on the PC.

I think HD-DVD and Blu-Ray will be around for a while but neither will win the war. Unless the studios select HD-DVD or Blu-Ray for us the battle is going to go on for a while.

Personally (gut feeling only), I think a stalemate would be the worst outcome in the mid-term. Both formats could co-exist peacefully, but that's going to take a significant amount of time. I agree and disagree with your point about the studios. I think one of them needs to step up and make one or the other more complelling for consumers to buy. HD-DVD, with backwards compatibility and potential lower prices, is in a better position to do that at this time. While Sony and its own studios will be the last to give up on Blu-Ray, the rest will quickly go where money is being made. If HD-DVD is driving sales, studios will be there to earn their cut.

Thanks for the comments, and I hope you enjoy the TechLore Community!

I think the costs of the HD disk production are simply higher down the board.  It can't be volume if it was volume than they would have already done the HD-DVD Combo requirement using the DVD volume to reduce cost. 

As for converting old titles well let’s see how many blockbusters come out per year; not that many maybe 2 per month if you are lucky.  So the studios have to rely on the older movies to get their foot in the door.  These movies also have less residuals (contracts in year created etc...) keeping their overall cost down. 

What I would like to see is the alternative view to your article why don't you write an article discussing why Blu-Ray could win.  Even if you are a HD-DVD fan (not saying you are) the experience of writing a completely opposite piece would be good for any writer. 

I agree with you a stalemate would be the worst possible result but unless the studios make the decision it will be sometime before the publics decision is clear. 

BigJames

One last item the dark horses in the world we have another format coming along now it will be interesting to see if they get any studio support at all.  What about another notable item online delivery?  What if I could spend $400 dollars on my next HiDef player and get 4 TB of storage and a built in Wifi system with support for external drive arrays.  Imagine a component on the stand without having to keep all the space for the cases.  This model does have its appeal although I think we are still 3-5 years from this model.   

 

James, would this not be a media center PC (though $400 is probably not reasonable!)? Absolutely, I think HDD storage of downloaded material could very well be the future, but I definitely think that removable media will always in some form or another be here to stay.

As for future formats, I wonder whether we're approaching the point where we'll see diminishing returns as we increase resolution. The jump from 480p to 1080p is HUGE, as you've more than doubled the number of horizontal lines on the screen. But the cost incurred to add more lines to displays will outstrip the difference in definition such an increase would yield.

Maybe they can get physical feel if we put the movies on USB drives. :-) 

James 

honestly i think that Blue-Ray is going to win the war

Blue Ray discs can be scratched to an extent and still play so that way you didn't waste 30 dollars for nothing.  there are more movies that are just on blue ray instead of hd-dvd that are top-sellers (except for the bourne series :( and that ps3's come with blue ray in it already and blue ray players are cheaper than hd-dvd players 

Well according to the TV set, in the past few weeks, several large retail stores have discontinued the distribution and sales of the HD/DVD equipment as well as the disc's. I do not know if this will kill the HD-DVD war, but one side just got hammered a bit I think.

Looks like my advice to Toshiba fell on deaf ears. I'll say nobody saw Warner pulling out from HD-DVD entirely in January, but even fewer than nobody (yes, that's possible) expected Toshiba and the HD-DVD alliance to just roll over and play dead like they did.

What a shame.

My dream of buying one disc that would work on my current and future hardware is dead. That's disappointing, and is a sad fate for consumers.  The question of which format I buy is NOT over, which wouldn't have been the case if my plan for HD-DVD was carried out. Now the format war is between Blu-Ray and regular DVD. Do I want to commit to buying software that won't play in my PC, my car, my laptop, and every other device I own right now? That's not going to be an easy decision...

Matt, LOL! I would certainly think that DVD would stay on board for the time being, as look at all those players out there now, including me, that have only DVD playing capabilities. I also think that the Blu-Ray equipment will come down in price as did the VHS recorders and just about everything else electronic for that matter. Yea one day they will not even have Blu-Ray. It will all be solid state memory playing back your favorite movies and shows. Imagine that, no moving parts or motors to go bad! Go figure.

 

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